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In this episode, Dave Wolcott, CEO of Pantheon Investments is a guest on the Cash Flow Connections Podcast. He chats with Tyler Lyons about his experiences as an investor and how he provides cash flow and diversification from all kinds of markets.
Dave also shares his expertise in the financial world and discusses how he is able to help investors achieve their goals by developing alternative wealth strategies. Mr. Wolcott shares the key pillars to creating holistic wealth strategies that every investor needs to know and the 3 wealth killers you need to be cautious of!
Dave’s mission is to help investors achieve their financial freedom through investing in tangible real estate assets that provide cash flow, low risk, diversification from the stock market, tax efficiency, and attractive returns.
Don’t miss out on this amazing episode to learn more about Dave Wolcott, his legacy wealth creation, and your next investment opportunity to offset your income!
In This Episode
- What the key pillars are to creating a holistic wealth creation strategy.
- What the “three wealth killers” are that investors need to be aware of in their wealth creation journey.
- Why “infinite banking” is a key piece of infrastructure for legacy wealth creation.
- The niche investment that passive investors can use to offset active income.
Hey everyone, welcome to today’s show on Wealth Strategy Secrets. Today, we’re going to share with you an interview I recently did on the Cash Flow Connections podcast, talking about our wealth strategy. We’re excited to be releasing my latest book coming out in January of this year on the Holistic Wealth Strategy and wanted to give you a sneak peek of what it’s all about. Hope you enjoy!
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Cash Flow Connections Real Estate Podcast. I’m Tyler Lyons, and I’m very excited for the guest we have here today. He’s the CEO of Pantheon Investments, where he helps investors achieve financial freedom through developing alternative wealth strategies that provide cash flow, tax efficiency, and diversification from the stock market. Dave Wolcott, welcome to the show.
Hey, Tyler, stoked to be here.
Awesome, looking forward to the conversation, Dave. And from getting to know you quite a bit over the last year or so, I know when it comes to investing, you take a very holistic view of the whole process. So, really excited to dive into this with you here today. Before we get into the details, how about you tell us a little bit about yourself? I’d love to know a little bit about how you got into the business of raising capital and helping investors build wealth.
Yeah, absolutely. It really started for me, Tyler. You know, back, I was raised in Connecticut in a middle-class family, and at the time, I thought, you know, what better accomplishment could I have than going to serve my country in the Marine Corps? So, I did the ROTC program, went to school for four years, and then got in the Marines after that and spent four years serving my country. Got to see a lot of things, you know, including combat, but learned a lot of things in the Marine Corps—things that they don’t necessarily teach you anywhere else, things like, you know, integrity, leadership, and teamwork. So, a lot of those core principles.
Then when I got out, I transitioned into Corporate America, and I was quickly dismayed, right? Because I really lost that sense of purpose, that sense of mission, right? That Corporate America just didn’t really have.
Then my wife and I happened to actually win the baby lottery, and we had triplets. We actually had another child as well, so we had four kids. The first thing I did, I’ll admit, I drank a lot that night. But the second thing I did was go and see my financial planner. Now that the goalpost was just moved out way beyond, you know, what I saw, I talked to him. And what’s the strategy? And no, they could never tell me anything different than the market’s going to go up, the market’s going to go down, but you’re going to make seven percent over the long haul, right? Dollar cost averaging, diversification, you know, that’s how you’re going to build your wealth. And I’m just kind of thinking like, hey, this is some kind of massive target. How can I get there?
So really, the entrepreneur in me at that point took on just this quest where I became obsessed with how the one percent really make their money. Because it’s not buying, you know, retail stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. Right? I had to figure out what is the way. This was around 2000, and before podcasts were even a thing, so I was pouring through books. I was trying to get into different communities and masterminds, right, to kind of, you know, connect and kind of learn. And that began my journey as, you know, Kiyosaki’s, you know, on the cash flow quadrant. That began my journey as becoming an investor.
I started to invest in alternative assets, looked at everything from oil and gas to raw land with real estate. I did shale plays. I did all kinds of different asset classes over the past 20 years. And then I also moved to the B side of the quadrant and became an entrepreneur running a technology consulting business, which is, you know, what I knew. What I came from. That was kind of the background I was in—consulting. So, I started to build a business, and that’s where I learned a lot about taxes, you know, how to scale business, right, all of the things about, you know, entrepreneurial growth.
And that really led me up to today, right? This latest instantiation of Pantheon, which is essentially, you know, my journey over these 20 years. How can I create more impact for others to take on all these learning lessons that I had over 20 years, right? I mean, all of these expensive mistakes that I made, also these connections that I’ve made in the industry. Right? I’ve made some phenomenal relationships. And so how could I translate that to other people?
Right, so Pantheon today is focused on really trying to help people understand different asset classes that are non-correlated to the stock market, right? And it’s also about getting exclusive access to opportunities that, you know, you might not really uncover. Right? Because it could be a full-time job in and of itself to identify great operators, vet different operators, as you, you know, distinctly know. So, we’re trying to take that off of the investor’s plate and continually add value to them as they, you know, grow and scale their portfolios.
Yeah, I love your story, Dave. That’s super helpful, and I know a mission of you and a mission of Pantheon Investments is to help investors to achieve financial freedom and to help them to build wealth and secure their future.
When it comes to wealth, a lot of people define wealth differently, and wealth means a different thing to many different people. So, if you were to define wealth, what does having wealth mean to you, and how would you recommend that people think about that?
Yeah, it’s a great question, Tyler, and you know, I think a lot of people don’t really think that deeply on it, quite frankly. Right? When they think about wealth, they just think about really freedom of money. If I had this number, I would be able to do X. But I know there’s a lot of entrepreneurs in your audience, right, and I’m an entrepreneur.
At the core of being an entrepreneur, it’s really around four freedoms. Right? It’s freedom of purpose to do what it is that you want to do. It is freedom of money, which is really oxygen to kind of create those experiences and live the life that you want to have. It’s also freedom of time, to be able to work when you want to work, and it’s also freedom of relationship. I mean, this is so important. Right? It’s being able to pick and choose who you work with. Right? You know, just like the partnerships that you create, investor relationships that you create—it’s all about having those great relationships.
So, you know, I really see it as having these four freedoms at the core of what’s driving this more holistic type of approach in life. Right? Because if I just pick your number, right, if I said you had 100 million tomorrow in assets, in the bank, whatever, you know, how would that really change your life? You know, and I think when you start to go deeper on this, how can you really create impact? You know, how can you have that purpose where you’re just fired up in the morning to go to work? You’re completely supercharged. Right? You’re in your lane, you’re doing the things that you like to do and things that fascinate and motivate you.
Yeah, definitely, and I think it is super important to think about wealth beyond just money. Right? Because if you focus too much on just money, it’s really going to be hard to give you the juice that you need to really push your life to the next level, you know? So, some of the things that you touched on when it comes to time freedom and relationship freedom, and some of those other things that are really important, I think focusing on them is crucial.
So, yeah, I really like that, Dave. And when you think about helping investors to build wealth and to kind of create the future that they want, I know that when it comes to your kind of holistic wealth creation strategy, there are certain key pillars that you believe are important for people to focus on. So, I’d love to have you just kind of describe what those pillars are and then maybe let us know why mindset is the best place for people to start.
Yeah, absolutely. And just to provide some background as well, Tyler, I was, you know, having so many different conversations, right, with investors, family, friends, you know, you name it. And you’re trying to articulate this type of alternative, you know, investing strategy and how many people do you guys know that just don’t get it, right? For one reason or another.
What do you mean I’m gonna, I’m, you mean I’m gonna sell money out of my 401k? That’s like, you know, my Golden Goose, and I’m gonna sell that and reposition that into assets? And what do you mean tax efficiency? I mean, you know, people just don’t get it.
So, I think kind of coming from a consulting background, and I’m really a simplifier, so I try to just take this whole concept of wealth building and put it into a few simple steps and create this, you know, strategy to do that.
So, the four simple steps to the holistic wealth strategy first start with creating a vision for yourself. If you don’t have a target, you’re going to miss every time, right? So, that vision statement is absolutely crucial, you know, before you kind of get on your journey for your wealth strategy.
And then the first one really boils down to mindset and having the right mindset to be able to get you to your vision and what your dreams really are. The second one involves creating an infrastructure to get there. So, that involves things like having a, you know, a proactive tax strategy, setting up an infinite banking policy to create a capital warehouse for liquidity and protection. It also involves asset protection, right, and getting in so you’re also protected, right? Because this is not only how we’re multiplying our wealth but also how we’re protecting our wealth.
And then the third phase is all about asset repositioning. Over 90 percent of Americans have the majority of their assets in their primary residence or in qualified government-sponsored plans, right? So, we look at trying to get them into more efficient assets, right?
And then the fourth and final stage is creating massive passive income, right? And that’s looking at, you know, opportunities such as, you know, you guys have, and whether that’s investing in, you know, an ATM fund or multi-family property or an oil and gas deal, right? It’s looking at opportunities that really are going to provide, you know, what we call really a trifecta of returns. Right? Things that have tax efficiency to them, they have predictable passive income, and then also have this, you know, lucrative pop on the back side.
Yeah, most definitely. And on the mindset side too, I agree. It’s so important, and it’s just something that people really seem to overlook. And I really do think people need to think very deeply on this.
And if you were to help people to kind of think deeply on their wealth creation strategy and on their wealth creation journey, what kind of questions should people ask themselves to get the mindset part of it dialed in a little bit better?
Great question. So the best thing I could do is to tell people, close your eyes right now.
If you’re driving—well, if you’re driving in your car, don’t close your eyes, okay? Put down your phone, put down your computer for a minute. And ideally, you’ve had a good day, maybe, you know, working out, you’re in a good state, right? You want to, you know, put yourself into a peak state before you do some of this deep thinking.
But my question would be this: If you had all the money in the world, what would you be doing? Where would you be, and who would you be with?
And it really all comes down to that, Tyler.
Yeah, I really like that. In fact, I should probably spend some time thinking deeply on that myself.
I love conversations like this where you get immediate takeaways.
On the mindset side, Dave, I think that’s a helpful exercise for people to think about.
In your experience, going through your own personal wealth creation journey and helping other investors create wealth, other than that question, are there any routines, rituals, or investments that you’ve made that have been impactful on the mindset side?
Absolutely. So, you know, as you can start to create your vision statement, you now have a target. You know, you’ve plugged in the coordinates on your GPS, and now you want to know where you’re going. So now, what habits can I create that support achieving that vision? Right? Are you incorporating those habits on a daily basis? Do you have a goal-setting routine that you’re reviewing frequently, and you’re doing this with your spouse as well? Right? So that you’re both on the same page in terms of getting to where it is that you want to be.
I also think it’s really important to have health habits, right? Because you could have all the wealth in the world, but if you don’t have your health, you’re going to be nowhere, right? So, do you have the right health habits that are creating energy for you, that are vitalizing you, and going to get you where you want to be? I actually have a goal to live to 116. So, what am I doing today to try to increase my health span as well as my longevity to get there? I work on that every day.
LeBron James spends a million and a half a year on his body. Okay, so what are you investing in your health so that you’re going to be around for your grandkids or whatever it is you choose to set your focus to?
So, I think creating those habits also means letting go of limiting beliefs. There are so many folks, you know, and look, I don’t blame people, right? And I had to go through this process myself. But frankly, there’s a 30 trillion-dollar financial services industry that wants you to think their agenda is the only thing that you can do, right? So, we all learned that putting money into a 401k is the best thing that you could do, right? So, a lot of people we talk to have such a strong belief system about that, they can’t even let that go to be exposed to a new idea. Maybe you don’t want to take on the new idea, but you have to have a growth mindset. That is really key, right? For letting go of some of these limiting beliefs. Also, discovering new things and having a growth mindset is really key.
Yeah, definitely. And the 401K is certainly something that the people on Wall Street, the marketers on Wall Street, have done a terrific job of really making people think that’s the only or the best way. That is really hard for people to let go of. But yeah, I think that’s a really good point there.
As we think about the next kind of pillar here to your wealth creation process, you’d mentioned creating some of the infrastructure that’s necessary to help people build wealth. As part of building that infrastructure, there are certainly a lot of things that you can do there.
I definitely want to talk to you a little bit about infinite banking, but before we get to that, what are some of the biggest wealth killers that people need to be aware of when they are getting out there and creating that wealth creation infrastructure?
Yeah, great question, Tyler, because a lot of people are really just focused on a particular ROI. Again, I think we were really conditioned or brainwashed by Wall Street to ask, “What’s the ROI? What’s the return on this type of investment?” But if you look at this thing comprehensively, you’re trying to say, “Well, what are the top three wealth destroyers?”
The top three wealth destroyers: Number one, it’s taxes. That is literally the biggest expense on your income statement. So, how can you put something in place to try to mitigate those taxes?
The second one would be stock market losses. A lot of people fail to realize that it’s all about progress over time in the market. You might have a great year. People say, “Hey, I’m up. I’m up 18% this year. Then next year, I’m up 20.” But year-to-date right now, we’re down something like 15% on some of the major indices. If we finish out the year down 15%, you have to remember that’s 15% of your cumulative returns. To get back to where you were, it takes a lot. People don’t fully value what’s going on with stock market losses.
Further, upon withdrawal, when you become 65 and want to retire and take out that money, according to their thesis, they forget to tell you about the fees they’ve been charging all along the way. Then there’s also inflation. We used to say inflation was maybe 2%. So, if you were making 7%, and now you’ve got a point or two in fees, and we were saying conservatively 2% inflation, that’s before. Right now, it’s easily at least 8.5%. So, you’re actually netting something like 4%. It really behooves you, if you have any money in the market, to look at how to address this.
So, that was the second one: stock market losses. Also, government-sponsored qualified plans are the third biggest wealth destroyer. The government tells you, “Okay, let’s defer your taxes. This is the strategy. You should defer your taxes until you’re 65.” Well, I don’t have a crystal ball, but the one thing I’m quite certain of is that taxes will likely go up in the future. Then, when you’re pulling out that income, they’re forcing you to take it out, by the way, and it’s being taxed at ordinary income tax rates.
About eight or nine years ago, I actually took my 401K, liquidated it, paid the 10% penalty, and paid all the taxes. I knew that if I put it in some of these real estate and alternative investments, I could break even in five or six years and have control of my money. This whole strategy is also about having control, Tyler. Too often, we’re convinced by Wall Street that we’re not smart enough to manage our own money. “Leave it to the professionals.” But in reality, the majority of them are just giving you products that fit into their portfolio, that they can sell to you. They’re not looking at the entire picture.
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Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. The control thing is very interesting too, Dave, because we’re all certainly seeking freedom. We all want to have free time to do what we want, spend time with family, and pursue passions and hobbies.
But the control aspect is really interesting too because I think people underestimate the amount of happiness and satisfaction we get from being the captain of our own ship. When it comes to creating your financial future—whether you’re an entrepreneur building a business or even something like your investments—taking it out of your 401K and really being the captain of your own ship, steering it yourself, is huge.
I know we’ve knocked on 401Ks quite a bit here, but what’s your perspective on either solo 401Ks or self-directed IRAs and using those tax-deferred vehicles to invest in the type of assets that you and I like—whether it’s cash-flowing real estate or other cash-flowing alternative investments? I don’t think it’s a bad option, right?
It’s better than the alternative, right? By having all of your eggs in the markets, you can start to get into some of these better asset classes. But again, now you’re starting to take away one of those dimensions, which is the tax efficiency. You still don’t have complete control—you can’t access the money until you’re 59 and a half.
Look, it was an aggressive move that I made, but I’ve got a lot of investors doing the same thing. I mean, you’re a data guy, right? Put it into Excel and model out a conservative forecast on where you’ve seen some of your investments perform. If that’s multifamily or whatever that asset class is, run out when you would break even. Even if I got back control and paid the 10% penalty to withdraw early, it still made sense.
Now, again, I’m not a CPA or a financial planner, so let me put out that disclaimer. It is a bold move, but when I actually modeled it out, it made perfect sense to me. And actually, I outperformed that in half the time. I broke even in like three years and never looked back. I’ve been completely doubling that money, and I was able to offset all the taxes with these types of investments anyway.
Yeah, it’s super interesting, Dave. I love that you think outside the box on this because this is the type of advice you just don’t hear on CNBC or from typical financial advisors and planners.
I’ll echo your sentiment that this isn’t financial advice from either of us, but I do think it’s super interesting, and I’m definitely sympathetic to it.
I also want to talk to you about infinite banking. It’s a concept I’ve heard before, I’m familiar with, and I know you’re a huge fan of. For our listeners who don’t know what infinite banking is yet, maybe you could give us a brief overview of what it is and why you think it’s critical to an investor’s overall wealth creation strategy.
Absolutely, and I really think— I know there are a lot of active real estate investors in the audience here, but I’ll tell you, this is a phenomenal strategy. I’ve been using this for about 10 years now.
I think about it like a pyramid—a wealth pyramid. At the bottom, you want a strong foundation, a base where you have liquidity, safety of principal, and tax efficiency. Then, on top of this base, you start building other asset classes like multifamily—conservative, asymmetric opportunities that are tax-efficient and cash-flowing. At the top of the pyramid, you might have more speculative things like crypto or investing in businesses.
Everyone leaves out this base, and the base can be set up with infinite banking. There’s a lot of confusion in the marketplace—people say, “I think I know what this is,” but essentially, it’s a dividend-paying whole life insurance policy. That’s exactly what it is. There’s a process with which you can access the policy’s cash value. You put money into it—monthly or annually, depending on how you structure it—and then you can borrow against the policy and invest elsewhere. You could use it to pay for your kids’ college or anything else. You literally have access to the funds within a few days, wired into your account.
This is all about control. The funds grow and compound tax-free, providing a nice tax shelter. They also avoid probate, so they’re passed on to your heirs completely tax-free. There’s an asset protection component as well. We’re always thinking about top-line growth, but you have to protect your wealth. Yes, there is a life insurance component, but if you have money in stocks, mutual funds, your primary residence, or cash, creditors can come after those first. If your money is in life insurance, it’s protected.
You also have the ability to create a tax-free cash flow stream whenever you want. Since all of us here are cash flow investors, the best thing is to create tax-free passive income. The way you do that is by taking loans against the policy, which are not taxable. You can set this up at any point in life. If you live to 116 or 124, you’ll never outlive your money because the policy always overperforms. Unlike the Wall Street investment thesis, which is built around a “nest egg,” this approach ensures continuous financial stability.
Another huge benefit, especially for entrepreneurs, is access to capital at any time. We’re all talking about opportunities—wanting dry powder—so where are you keeping yours? In my infinite banking policy, mine is growing at five and a half to six percent or more. It’s tax-efficient and protected. That’s where I keep my one year of operating expenses to protect my family and business, and that’s where I keep my dry powder for when opportunities arise.
Let’s say you take a loan on the policy at a rate of three and a half percent. If you can borrow at three and a half percent and make 18% on a multifamily deal, look at the arbitrage you’re creating. You’re also using the same dollar twice—leveraging it out and putting it into another opportunity.
This is a sophisticated way to add more velocity to your portfolio while solving a common problem for cash flow investors. We have all this cash flow coming from different properties, but where do you put it? Many of us just let it sit in a checking account until we have enough for the next deal, but that makes it too accessible and easy to have leakage. The best place to put it is into your policy. Your cash flow goes right into the policy, and then you loan it out for the next deal—rinse and repeat.
Yeah, it’s super interesting, Dave. One thing I don’t want people to overlook is the fact that you can build up this cash value policy, and then it passes on to your heirs tax-free. That’s really huge for people who are thinking about building a long-term legacy and creating a financial fortress for their family. Wow, that’s just so compelling.
One thing I know for me personally is that I like to invest. I like to keep my cash cycling into investments, especially in situations like now, with inflation as high as it is. One thing that maybe scared me away from infinite banking a little bit is the thought of locking my cash away. But the fact that you can leverage and borrow against the policy is really compelling. Even if you do sock money away into this policy, you can borrow against it to invest in other opportunities and get that arbitrage, which is super interesting.
I have a couple of quick questions on this, Dave. How much can someone borrow against an infinite banking policy? Can they borrow up to 100% of the policy value, or are there certain limits? What does borrowing against the policy look like?
Yeah, so the key here is—and I really want to preface this—I felt so strongly about this solution, and I’ve been using it for so long. I got my license, and we’re able to provide this with Pantheon, but it has to be a properly structured policy right upfront.
There are very few people, even if you call your life insurance provider today and say, “Hey, can I set this up?” who may know what you’re talking about. Or, they may steer you in a different direction.
I just want to emphasize that having a properly structured contract is absolutely crucial in doing this. That’s really the basis for that.
Yeah, that makes sense. All right, so I really appreciate the information on infinite banking. I think it’s a super interesting strategy.
As we think about the next pillar of the wealth creation strategy here, you’d mentioned asset repositioning. I’d love to hear your perspective on this. What are some of the most effective strategies?
What do you typically see as good opportunities for investors? Maybe you could just unpack that strategy a little bit for us.
Sure, so as we kind of talked about earlier, over 90% of Americans have their funds in their primary residence and 401(k)s. Now, in your primary residence, what’s the rate of return on equity in your house? It’s not a trick question—we call that trapped equity. It’s just sitting there, not doing anything.
But again, mainstream media and conventional wisdom often say, “Oh, let’s pay off the house early” or “Let’s refinance for a 15-year mortgage.” No. If you actually structure it so you have up to 90% financing and take that capital out, you can put it into safe investments, like real estate, and really start accelerating your wealth.
Many people are hesitant to take this step, and it often comes back to mindset. You have to do the right research, be open-minded, and say, “Okay, let me look at all the facts and dig into this.” You can also review it with your CPA or trusted advisors to get an objective perspective. But I think this is a great starting point, and we’ve seen many investors have success with this strategy.
A lot of them have taken home equity lines of credit (even at today’s rates, around 5%), and they’ve been able to make 20% annualized or more with alternative investments. This allows them to service the debt while strategically adding velocity to their wealth.
This is a common question: people say, “I’d like to invest; this sounds interesting, but I don’t have $100K or $50K just sitting in the bank.” Well, this is the first place to look.
Another area to consider is government-sponsored plans. Many of us still have these from past employers, but I’d encourage people to review the numbers. Don’t just hold on to it until you’re 59½ to avoid the 10% penalty. Think about it—wouldn’t you rather pay taxes on the seed instead of the harvest?
If you’re 37, for example, it’s often better to pay the taxes now. And if you invest in the right vehicle, you can offset those taxes. For instance, we currently have an oil and gas opportunity that allows you to offset W-2 active income right away.
So, I’d encourage people to at least take a closer look at these strategies.
Yeah, awesome advice, Dave, and super interesting strategies. The last pillar of your strategy here is building massive income. When it comes to building massive income, I know we’ve touched on a few different strategies here today, and certain ones you and I are both big fans of, like multi-family, for example.
I’d love to hear you talk about that a little bit. Do you have any favorite passive income opportunities right now? Any certain niches that you think are super interesting or compelling? Would love to hear you explain.
Sure. You know, real estate—and it is kind of funny, right? Wall Street calls them alternative assets. I mean, it’s only alternative to them because they don’t sell it. But last time I checked, real estate has been around for centuries, right? Asset classes like that.
We look for the macro trends that are out there, where you have supply-demand imbalances, and also invest at the lowest level of Maslow’s hierarchy—food, shelter, and energy.
Right now, we have a really strong opportunity around oil and gas. It’s very uniquely structured, similar to a value-add multi-family deal, where investors can actually invest in oil-producing wells. It’s not exploratory at all. One hundred percent of your investment can be deductible—80% in the first year, which is huge for high-income earners.
We also see very strong cash flow that pays monthly dividends in the double-digit range. The business model involves taking some of these assets, doing a series of divestitures, bundling them up, and selling them to some of the larger players.
We really like this asset class, especially as it’s becoming harder to find really good markets in multi-family right now with the debt markets and things like that. But again, looking at those macro fundamentals and the supply-demand imbalance for energy, I think energy prices are only going up in the future. The infrastructure we have in place from a global perspective is completely lacking.
You want to be on the right side of the equation when it comes to some of these asset classes.
Yeah, most definitely, Dave. This is really helpful, and I just love the way you think about this stuff—taking a very holistic view. I really appreciate you walking us through your pillars of wealth creation here today, Dave, and I appreciate your time. If people want to follow you and what you’ve got going on at Pantheon Investments, what’s the best way to do that?
Sure, appreciate that, Tyler. So, if people want, my full book is going to be published at the end of the year, but right now we do have an ebook on this wealth strategy. You can download it at pantheoninvest.com/wealth-strategy.
Awesome. Good stuff, Dave. Again, really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.
You bet, Tyler.