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Today, we have a truly exceptional guest joining us, Mr. Mark Hutchinson. Mark is a seasoned executive with over four decades of experience as an entrepreneur and investor. His journey through investing, entrepreneurship, and alternative finance advisory has shaped him into a respected authority in these fields.
Mark’s dynamic career, filled with triumphs and setbacks while building and scaling businesses, has provided him with a unique perspective on alternative wealth strategies and becoming a better investor. His diverse experiences make him an invaluable source of insight and guidance in wealth building.
In this episode, we’ll explore how Mark’s journey led him to a personal revelation in the aftermath of the 2008 financial turbulence—the IBC concept. Since then, he has been dedicated to reshaping his clients’ financial views and uncovering hidden truths that can help them achieve financial success.
Mark’s commitment to financial education shines through in his fervor and the referrals he receives from satisfied clients. His wealth of knowledge and experiences will provide you with valuable insights into alternative wealth strategies, entrepreneurship, and the importance of continuous financial education.
In This Episode
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His four decades of experience in the steel industry and insights from steel fabrication and industry climb
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Lessons learned from his entrepreneurial endeavors
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How Infinite Banking Concept (IBC) can secure financial futures
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Mark’s commitment to educating and empowering people with knowledge and insights from his years of experience
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Examples of how alternative wealth strategies can work in practice
Welcome to another episode of Wealth Strategy Secrets. Today, we’re joined by Mark Hutchinson, a seasoned executive with over four decades of expertise in the steel industry. His journey has established him as a respected authority in steel fabrication, entrepreneurship, and alternative finance advisory. Mark’s advisory work has earned him the trust and respect of clients who value his insights.
His dynamic entrepreneurial career, shaped by triumphs and setbacks, has allowed him to build and scale several businesses, enriching his understanding of alternative wealth strategies. With such diverse experiences, Mark is an invaluable source of insight and guidance.
In the wake of the 2008 financial turbulence, Mark experienced a personal revelation with the infinite banking concept. Since then, he has been committed to reshaping clients’ financial views and uncovering hidden truths. His dedication to financial education is evident in his fervor and the referrals he garners from satisfied clients. Mark, welcome to the show!
Thank you, Dave. I’m glad to be here. It’s always fun to talk to you.
I’ve been looking forward to this conversation, Mark. It’s always great when we connect. I learn from you all the time, and I think this is going to be a special episode for the audience. Today’s episode is about the investor journey. Mark has had quite a prolific journey, moving from being an entrepreneur to becoming a professional investor, creating businesses along the way. I believe his experiences and insights will be incredibly valuable for the audience. For those who don’t know you, can you share how it all began for you? What was the moment that got you into this space?
I have an interesting background. I was born in the U.S. but grew up in Africa on a farm and ranch, which gave me a unique perspective. Everything revolved around hard work and dedication. This experience planted the seed for me to become an entrepreneur and a bit of a risk-taker, as farming and agriculture come with their risks.
When I left Africa, my parents stayed behind, and I came to the U.S. with just a suitcase and a dream, eager to see how it would all unfold. I took on some odd jobs and did a variety of things. I was a commercial diver in the Bay Area and then a feedlot cowboy, but that job didn’t pay enough for me to avoid sleeping on a floor. So, I found work as a welder fabricator, which is where things started to change for me because I had experience welding from my time on the farm.
I took that job, and over about two years, I kept growing within that company. I had some interesting experiences, including doing a lot of work in Pebble Beach, 17 Mile Drive, and working for celebrities. I thought to myself, “Dave, I can do this on my own.” So, I broke out on my own and started my own company. Over the next 13 years, that company grew into a sizable steel fabrication and erection firm in California. However, without any formal education in business, I faced some stumbling blocks along the way. One of the most significant challenges came in a very interesting way, which also shaped my career going forward. This occurred around 1990.
I was issued a contract by the state of California to seismically retrofit part of the US 101 Central Viaduct that leads into San Francisco. This was the first contract of its kind to repair the portion of the freeway that did not collapse during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. I knew that to complete this job, I had to do something different. My success depended on creating a piece of equipment that was necessary for the work, but that equipment didn’t exist.
After being awarded the contract, I leased a 40,000-square-foot building in addition to my steel fabrication plant and began to develop this equipment. About a month and a half into the six-month project—which came with substantial six-figure liquidated damages per calendar day—I found myself in real trouble. I was at a critical point where I could either succeed or fail right then and there. We were on the verge of finalizing the design but couldn’t get it to work despite multiple iterations. Finally, we had the breakthrough we needed, and it worked.
In about four weeks, we made up the month and a half we had fallen behind and finished five weeks ahead of schedule. This was a life-changing moment for me, as I knew I was on the path to success and stood to make over a million dollars on this contract. However, about a week later, I received a phone call with shocking news: they said, “You’re not going to believe this. The state is going to put this contract on hold.”
“What do you mean they’re going to put it on hold?” I asked. They explained that we could have an aftershock and the freeway could collapse, which necessitated immediate repairs. A couple of days later, I received written notification that the contract had been terminated for convenience. To the best of my knowledge, and my lawyer’s knowledge, this was the first time the State of California had ever used that clause.
Convenience clauses exist in all contracts, especially in the construction world, but you don’t normally see them executed by governmental agencies. Typically, you have a plan when you start and issue contracts, and you don’t terminate for convenience. It took about a year and a half for me to settle with the state and get paid. During that time, I struggled to survive and ultimately lost my business of 13 years.
This was an eye-opening experience because I realized that things could change in an instant due to factors completely out of your control. I felt like I was being dragged down a path for that year and a half while trying to get paid, receiving only small amounts here and there, as they were in control. That experience was a significant game changer for me professionally.
It’s interesting how these defining moments in our careers, whether in a W-2 job or as an entrepreneur, can feel monumental, and they are. We often find we can grow the most from these types of experiences. Mark, how did this defining moment shape your perspective? Did it propel you into investing, and what was your next course of action?
At that point, I had always been focused on building my business. In my current work with clients, many business owners are similarly focused on investing in themselves and their businesses. They concentrate on building their business rather than exploring external investment opportunities because they believe in themselves and their ventures.
When I lost the business, two things happened. First, I struggled with my confidence. I wondered, “Who’s going to hire me? No one would want me. I’ve been self-employed for most of my adult life.” I didn’t know how to work for anyone; I only knew how to run everything myself.
However, I soon realized that this independence was a quality many business owners were looking for. This realization began my career as a business builder within the industry I loved and was passionate about. Along with that came the question of what to do next regarding investing.
I found myself grinding away all day building businesses, but typically, everything went into 401(k)s, which were just starting to become the norm. Before that, businesses often offered pensions. So, I started to get heavily involved in market equity exposure, where I remained focused for quite some time. While it served me well, knowing what I know today, I would not choose that path again.
Because we become smarter the more we know. What was an eye-opener for me were the market events that transpired throughout my career leading up to 2008. When you look at those events, it starts with Black Monday, then we had the Gulf War, the dot-com bubble in 2000, and September 11th.
We also had the global currency crisis and the European crisis. It felt like it was three steps forward and one and a half steps back, or even two steps back, depending on the timing. So, as I worked through my career and had more exposure to these events, I realized I needed to find something else. That was a big revelation for me.
Interesting. That was your last straw moment. I can relate, and I know it resonates with a lot of other folks too. I mean, having gone through the dot-com bubble in 2000, you name it—all these events. I think what’s at the heart of this discussion, which many people don’t talk about as much, is having control. It’s about trying to gain a sense of control over your financial freedom and your destiny.
It felt like going to a casino—being completely exposed to the equity markets. Typically, when something goes wrong, you want to adjust and make something happen, but you just have no control there. Interestingly, you were able to make that shift. Have you refined an actual wealth strategy that you’re leveraging today?
Yes. I would also add, Dave, that during that period, I figured out something strange that happens in traditional Wall Street and with brokers: they like to talk about average returns. That’s a big topic for them—they always mention how the S&P averages over 10, 20, or 30-year periods, or the Dow Jones average.
If you take the example of a 10% return per year for 10 years, you sum up the total of the returns: 10 times 10 equals 100, and then you divide by the number of periods—10. That gives you an average 10% return. I think we can all agree on that.
But if you apply that differently and say, “Okay, let me take minus 10% for the first period, then plus 30%, minus 10%, plus 30%” over 10 years, the sum is still 100. When you divide that by 10, you’re still at 10%. The problem with this logic is that if you take a $1,000,000 account and compound it 10% per year for 10 years, you’d end up with about $2,590,000. However, if you do the second iteration—minus 10%, plus 30%—that average return is about 8.17%. Why? Because of volatility.
Any volatility negatively impacts the return. While they might tell you that you had a 10% rate of return over those 10 years, the difference between those two accounts is $400,000. It’s these half-truths or misnomers in the financial industry that I find very frustrating. So, that’s what sort of led me on my path, to get back to your question.
Agree. Stock market losses are one of the top three biggest wealth destroyers, but no one looks at it that way.
We’re up 15%, then 18%. Everyone thinks things are going well, but then you lose 20% last year. That’s on that total compounded value you mentioned. To get back to where you were is a significant difference. Another thing I’d add is that I think advisors aren’t helping their clients by really discussing taxes, fees, and inflation. You pointed out what the actual rate of return is—closer to 8%—but when you factor in at least a 1% to 2% fee over that time, you’re down to about 6.5%.
And taxes? Everyone talks about deferring them, but the only thing I’m certain of in the future is that taxes are likely going to increase, and we don’t control that—the government does. So why put yourself at that risk? Once you take taxes out, you’re probably looking at a 4% to 5% return, which contributes to what I believe is a real crisis in this country.
I would agree with that. I see it all the time. I talk to people about these issues, and it seems they are really unaware. People are caught up in their daily lives—W-2 jobs, kids in sports. Parents are running in every direction, and they just don’t have time to learn these things or apply sound concepts to their financial lives.
Such a great point, Mark. It’s exactly true. There’s just so much going on. We all learned this from our parents, peers, and employers. Every time you start a new job, you have to sign up for the 401(k) program. They kind of lure you in by saying, “Hey, we’ll give you a free match.” But you should still do the math and consider the net income you’re going to get, even when they say it’s “free money.” And then you’ll be taxed at a rate you have no idea about in the future, depending on how old you are.
Exactly. Then the RMDs kick in, and whether you want that money or not, it’s time to pay out.
Mark, tell us a little about the Infinite Banking concept. How did you come across it in 2008? What was your revelation there, and what problem did it solve for you?
In 2008, as you said, it was my final straw. I had had enough. I set out on a journey to find another way to interact with the financial system. There had to be something out there for me, and I stumbled upon an advisory letter called the Palm Beach Letter. They were discussing this concept called Income for Life (IFL). The way they presented it was in dribs and drabs.
It took me a good six or seven weeks to gather enough information before I felt ready to venture out on my own and investigate what these guys were doing. I couldn’t wait six months for them to explain it to me. Eventually, I discovered what we now refer to as the Infinite Banking Concept (IBC). When I realized what this was, I went down the rabbit hole, Dave—it was intense. I was determined to learn everything I could about it because it resonated with me on so many levels. My previous experiences in working and investing made me feel like I was pouring salt on old wounds.
What struck me the most was that throughout my career, I had dealt with numerous insurance professionals—both in my own business and in others. As an executive, I had always been insured, yet not one of these professionals had ever mentioned this concept to me. This indicated to me that they probably weren’t aware of it themselves.
They never considered recommending any form of permanent insurance; it was always about term policies—just renting insurance. That stuck with me, and I found myself questioning what was going on. Eventually, I figured out what the issue was, and I won’t lie; I felt a bit of anger about it at the time.
What do you think the issue is, Mark?
I believe the issue lies in the training. Insurance companies train agents to sell products in a very specific manner, which doesn’t include exposure to concepts like IBC. Their most profitable products are typically not permanent; they focus on products that expire and leave no payout without a triggering event, like term insurance. Selling term insurance is tremendously profitable for insurance companies because every permanent product sold implies there will be a payout, simply due to how the product is structured.
Exactly. In some cases, there isn’t necessarily a payout, such as when someone surrenders a policy. However, that doesn’t happen often. Those I work with never surrender policies because we focus on educating people about why that’s a poor decision.
But it does happen.
Let’s rewind for a moment. I want to revisit your earlier comments to help the audience understand your initial impressions when you first encountered this concept. What was it that resonated with you and made you think, “Wow, this really makes sense for me”?
When I discovered that I could put money into a financial instrument that would grow every single day—regardless of market conditions—something clicked for me. I was drawn to the idea of not being tied to market fluctuations and knowing that I wouldn’t lose money. Having experienced too many setbacks in the past, the thought of becoming wealthier each day was significant to me.
As I delved deeper, I began to understand how the actual product could be utilized and the numerous living benefits it offered when properly structured. I was blown away by the idea of taking a policy loan and then investing that money elsewhere for a higher return, effectively allowing my capital to work in two places simultaneously. We started building models to illustrate this. For instance, I considered what would happen if I invested $10,000 in dividend stocks every year, and I explored scenarios involving 401(k) plans and IRAs. The more I experimented with these examples, the clearer it became to me why people were embracing this approach.
That’s such a great explanation. When I first encountered this concept, I saw investors using it to amplify their returns by leveraging the same dollar in two different places. I can relate to your journey as an entrepreneur. Early on, conventional financial advice typically suggested having three to six months’ worth of savings set aside—your “sleep at night” capital.
Now, with all the uncertainty in the market and the impending discussions about recession, it’s interesting to note that the ultra-wealthy often have three years’ worth of personal operating capital, allowing them to navigate economic downturns without needing to sell their assets.
Exactly. People don’t discuss having a liquidity strategy within a portfolio enough. You can use your existing capital much more efficiently. If you take that three to six months of savings—and as you described so well, your wealth is growing every day within this vehicle—if you need that capital, it’s available to borrow against.
This approach provides a sense of security, knowing that you have resources to draw upon when the unexpected happens, which is an inevitable part of life. Plus, you also gain additional benefits, like asset protection.
It’s a legacy strategy because you can pass it on to your heirs without paying taxes. I know the audience may find this a bit geeky, but I get fired up about this. When you can take a dollar and use it for multiple purposes, it’s incredibly powerful.
Dave. When I talk to clients who are using these products, I often hear them say things like, “I can sleep at night, Mark.” They feel secure knowing that if something were to happen to them, all their real estate investments would be paid for. You can’t achieve that kind of peace of mind with a traditional bank account. Typically, you save up money, put it in your bank account, and then drain that account to buy real estate. If something goes wrong, you might have term insurance, but think about the assurance that comes from knowing your spouse or partner and your family are taken care of if something were to happen to you. That’s powerful.
I don’t think people fully grasp that when they dig into it and start peeling back the layers. There’s so much to uncover. I understand why many advisors may hesitate to recommend these types of products; they’ve often received a bad rap.
I was going to ask why you think that is from your perspective.
I believe it comes down to assets under management. Many advisors prefer to have clients in the markets because that’s where they see the most action and profit. They want you invested there. However, I think a part of the issue is also a lack of understanding. Life insurance has commission structures, and at the end of the day, everyone needs to be compensated for their time and expertise, whether that’s an advisor, a lawyer, or a mechanic.
What’s interesting about fees is this: if you take, say, $100,000 in insurance premiums paid over ten years and compare it to the same amount managed by an advisor, I can guarantee that after 30 years, the fees with the advisor will likely be 10 to 15 times higher than what you paid to your insurance agent. It’s simply how the industry works. Insurance fees are front-loaded, while advisor fees are ongoing. As long as they have enough assets under management, they’ll have a great life.
It’s an interesting point. If we bring this back to what we discussed earlier about the 10% return, the question arises: is a 6% return on an insurance policy better than the 10% return that Wall Street promotes? Life insurance is compound tax-free. So, why don’t you unpack that and explain what it looks like?
Sure. On the life insurance side, your money builds in a tax-deferred environment. If you were to surrender your policy at some point in the future, you would owe income tax on the difference between your premiums paid and your cash value. For example, if you paid $100,000 in premiums and have a cash value of $150,000, you would receive a 1099 from the insurance company upon surrender. They would notify the IRS of a $50,000 gain, so it’s not entirely tax-free. You earned it in a tax-deferred manner, but since we typically don’t surrender policies, this isn’t usually a concern.
In the Infinite Banking Concept (IBC) world, everyone wants to keep their policy forever. We can take policy loans in the future and structure those loans for a steady stream of income. You can set up these payments for 10, 15, 20, or even 30 years—whatever period you prefer. You can withdraw money from your policy without ever having to repay it, which often confuses people.
They wonder, “How can I take a loan and not repay it?” The reason is that insurance companies are playing the long game. Unlike us, they know that eventually, you will pass away, and when that happens, they will receive repayment for the loan along with any accrued interest.
Upon your death, the insurance company pays the death benefit minus any outstanding loans or interest owed. So, they always get paid, and because they are in it for the long term, they don’t mind waiting. I think many clients find this concept strange, but it’s this mechanism that gives us complete control over our money, allowing us to dictate the repayment structure of our loans.
For example, if you wanted to invest in oil and gas and needed a $100,000 investment, you could take a policy loan. If that investment takes three years to pay you back, you can simply sit back with the $100,000 loan open, and nothing negative will happen to you. You do not have to repay it immediately; you have complete control over the loan repayment system. We want you to be an honest banker.
If we’re using the term “banking,” we want you to approach it honestly because it’s in your best interest to repay those loans. We’ll need to draw on those funds in the future, especially if we’re implementing a retirement strategy where we pull capital and create a stream of income.
We want to utilize our policies before we retire. Then, when we do retire, we’ll adjust how we use our policies, but I’m speaking in general terms, of course. That’s such a great point. I also want to highlight a common misconception in traditional planning regarding Monte Carlo simulations. These simulations often predict lifespans based on genetics. For instance, if you’re a 55-year-old male, they might estimate you’ll pass away at 91.
If you follow the accumulation theory approach, trying to build up a nest egg only to start depleting it each year, you risk outliving your money. With advancements in technology, it’s entirely possible to live past 100. Would you want to be scrambling for income when you’re 96? Life insurance continues to function, right?
Correct. It continues indefinitely, regardless of how long you live. Yes, it compounds, and you can continue drawing income from it, which is what everyone is ultimately seeking. Income is income, whether it’s passive or generated from selling equities. This is a much more strategic approach.
After spending years uncovering strategies used by family offices and ultra-high-net-worth individuals, I can tell you that this is a cornerstone of their strategy. Many people have brokerage assets due to 401(k)s or similar qualified plans.
What people often fail to realize, until they reach that point, is the issues associated with a sequence of returns and the risks involved. You may have $1 million or $2 million in qualified money, but now you must rely on it as your only source of income.
And as you start to lean on it, if the market goes down 20%, what do you do? You’re now in a position where you have to draw from an account that is losing value. This puts you in a difficult situation, potentially taking a double hit. You might even find yourself facing required minimum distributions (RMDs), which force you to withdraw funds regardless of market conditions.
But let’s say you’re not yet at the RMD stage. You need to protect that asset, and I’m telling you, there’s no better asset to have than the cash value of your life insurance. I can show you a strategy where if you’re drawing from your qualified accounts and face a negative return year, instead of taking, say, $45,000 from your brokerage account during a down year, you can avoid that withdrawal.
There’s no better asset that you could have than the cash value of your life insurance
Instead, you can take $45,000 from your life insurance policy this year and the same amount the following year. Then, in the third year, you would withdraw a total of $90,000 to repay your policy loans along with the $45,000 you take for yourself.
I can model this with actual market returns, demonstrating that if you don’t use this strategy, your policy could collapse. But if you utilize your capital effectively, the account remains viable. It’s an absolute game changer, yet many people don’t discover this until it’s too late. You need to understand these strategies early on, take defensive measures, and implement these tools to protect your retirement.
Such a great strategy, Mark. So many great insights. I’m always learning from you and enjoy these discussions as we dive deeper. I know the audience will appreciate this one too. If you could give just one piece of advice to listeners on how to accelerate their wealth journey, what would it be?
From my experience with clients and in business, the key is to take action. This is the number one issue I see repeatedly, Dave. People tend to overanalyze. They’re often looking for complete knowledge before making a decision. The problem with that is it can paralyze them. We all have that gut instinct that we should trust.
Gather enough information to make an intelligent decision, take action, trust your instincts, and then course-correct as needed. If things aren’t unfolding as expected, take the time to adjust your approach. But if you don’t take action, there’s no chance for progress. I believe that this is the one thing that could change people’s trajectories.
That’s great advice, Mark. I appreciate that. I’ve also had the pleasure of getting to know you through the Pantheon Mastermind and the virtual family office. I’d love to hear your thoughts on your experience with that so far.
I’ve enjoyed it; it has exceeded my expectations. I think you’re an incredible curator. The topics you bring to the table are fascinating, with impactful and meaningful points. I’ve always known about goal setting, given my business background, but your approach to it has been very interesting.
I particularly love the “Be, Do, Have” framework. You learn so much by engaging with these concepts. I find it incredibly valuable, and I’m grateful that our paths have crossed.
I appreciate that, Mark. It ties back to what you mentioned earlier about people struggling to take action. I believe part of the issue is that, as humans, we tend to follow the crowd. Most people are putting their capital into 401(k)s and IRAs. So, when a new concept comes along, it can be intimidating. People often think, “Wow, I have to go against the grain.”
This is one reason I wanted to create this mastermind and family office: to reassure individuals that they’re not alone. We have peers sharing similar experiences who can affirm innovative ideas. Just look at the experiences you’ve shared from your journey; that becomes inspirational for the whole group. Additionally, plugging into the advisors we’ve had has been invaluable.
I’ve spent years trying to find the right attorney for asset protection and firing numerous CPA firms because they didn’t quite understand my needs. But when you can gather like-minded people in one room, it’s truly amazing.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Mark. I appreciate your time on the show today. If people would like to reach out to you or connect, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Thank you, Dave. I’ve enjoyed this as well. The easiest way to reach me is through email at [email protected] or by visiting livingbenefits-life.com. That website offers more information on the topics we’ve discussed and more, providing an opportunity for self-education.
Excellent. Thanks, Mark. And thanks to our listeners for spending your most valuable resource with us—your time. We truly appreciate it, and we’ll see you next week.