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Dr. Sam Pappas is an Internal Medicine physician specializing in the fields of Personalized Medicine and Integrative Health and Wellness. He has over 25 years of experience and has practiced in a variety of diverse positions in both academic health centers and private practice.
Dr. Pappas has received many recognitions and has been called “the Dr. Oz of Arlington”. He is passionate about helping change the paradigm of disease-based medicine to one that emphasizes systems medicine, root causes, biochemical individuality, is patient-centered, and uses primarily lifestyle medicine to achieve optimal health and function.
Your health is a precious resource. You have the power to make it yours and use technology as an ally in this journey. Dr. Pappas first focuses on understanding who you are – stress levels, hormones, and root causes that can determine where you are in your health today.
Dr. Pappas also emphasizes the importance of understanding your values and priorities which will determine how successful it is for you to live a healthy lifestyle. He uncovers the framework for wellness and shares key points, tips, and supplements for a journey full of health.
This episode is so insightful, one to keep in your books. Listen now and take notes!
In This Episode
- Dr. Pappas’ journey and unique philosophy.
- Understanding Integrative Medicine
- The Concept of ‘Corporate Athlete’
- Dr. Pappas’ framework for wellness and key points to work on.
- Biohacking tips and supplements.
Hey everyone, welcome to today’s show on Wealth Strategy Secrets. Today, we are joined by Dr. Sam Pappas, an internal medicine physician specializing in the fields of personalized medicine and integrative health and wellness. He has over 25 years of experience and has practiced in a variety of diverse positions in both academic health centers and private practice.
Dr. Pappas has received numerous recognitions and has been called “The Dr. Oz of Arlington.” He is passionate about helping change the paradigm of disease-based medicine to one that emphasizes systems medicine, root causes, biochemical individuality, and patient-centered care. He primarily uses lifestyle medicine to achieve optimal health and function.
His outlook and philosophy have been shaped by his Greek heritage and his study of the ancient Greek ethos of health and vitality. This is combined with his personal experience with traditional cultures and the modern Mediterranean diet and lifestyle.
Dr. Pappas regularly writes and collaborates with his twin brother, Tom, who is a business leader and retired Army officer. Together, they focus on optimizing leadership health through the use of ancient and modern timeless ideas, practices, and strategies.
Dr. Pappas runs his own unique practice, Pappas Health, in Tysons Corner, Virginia. His practice incorporates innovative services that blend a high-tech and high-touch approach while maintaining the best of holistic and traditional medicine in a collaborative environment.
Dr. Pappas, welcome to the show.
Great to be here, my friend. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I can’t tell you how excited I am to have you on the show and to share the wisdom you’ve provided me over the years with our audience. It’s a really special opportunity to introduce one of my top team members to our listeners. I’m truly grateful that you’re here.
I’m excited! I can’t thank you enough. Congrats on the podcast—I’m just so excited and impressed with it. Your passion and ethos really come across, and I’m thrilled to talk about how we do things so similarly. I have a similar outlook.
Yeah, it’s really fascinating, isn’t it? In my journey, I talk a lot about this concept of holistic wealth and what that truly means. For many people, wealth means different things, right? Often, we think about it solely in financial terms—questions like, “Are you going to be able to make it to retirement?” or “Do you have enough financial security?” dominate the conversation.
But throughout my journey, I’ve realized how critical it is to include health as part of your underlying fabric. Health is what enables you to reach new levels, energizes you, and allows you to live not just a long lifespan but a strong health span as well.
Absolutely. You know, I was impressed when we met. We hit it off, finding so much in common and sharing a lot of the same passions. When you shared your philosophy, it really dovetailed so well with mine—emphasizing the importance of aligning your IQ, mindset, health, and financial outlook.
I think that’s what’s missing in traditional medicine, unfortunately. Too often, the recommendation is simply to “take a pill to match the ill,” with a focus on naming, taming, and blaming the problem rather than diving deeper into more foundational principles. That’s something you and I both feel strongly about.
So, why don’t we get things started, Dr. Pappas? Could you share a bit about your background and journey, and how you developed your unique philosophy of medicine? I think it’s very different from what 90% of the rest of the world is practicing and preaching.
Well, I appreciate that. I’m a Greek New Jersey boy, and sometimes when I get excited, my New Jersey accent gets the best of me. I grew up with one foot in the traditional Greek world and the other in the American world—two great cultures intermingling. I loved sports and academics and almost followed my twin brother’s path to becoming a West Pointer and a military guy.
Instead, I chose to go to college and med school. I was fortunate to become a chief resident and academic internist, thinking academic medicine and knowledge represented the pinnacle of being a healer.
Then, I started practicing in New Jersey. I stole my wife-to-be, brought her back to New Jersey, and quickly realized the skills and tools I had weren’t as helpful as I’d hoped. Most of what I did was prescribe pills to match the ill. That wasn’t enough for me.
I met colleagues interested in health, wellness, and martial arts. They pointed me toward research supporting the ideas I’d grown up with. I began combining that research with my fascination for ancient Greece. I realized the ancient Greek Olympians were the original hackers—citizen scientists experimenting with health and performance.
I embraced this ethos of dynamic traditionalism, combining the best of modern technology and future advancements with past cultural wisdom. I started practicing this way, and whether in New Jersey or Northern Virginia/Washington, DC, patients have gravitated toward it. They really get it, and I’ve learned so much from them.
I’ve also experimented on myself as a citizen scientist. It’s been an incredible journey. I work with great people, but I’ve learned the most from patients like you as I continually strive to figure out how best to personalize health.
Yeah, it’s really fascinating. Can you talk a little bit about really this approach of integrative medicine? I think that’s definitely unique, and how is that foundational to your approach?
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. It’s a large tent, and it has a lot of different names. I’ll call it integrative because I think it’s a nice term. A lot of folks say functional medicine. I really like the term personalized medicine as well because it really—you want to make it for the unique person.
My take is there should be principles over protocols. A lot of people in the health sphere will just say, “Let’s just do my protocol.” Probably that’s like what happens in the financial world. So, the principles that I find and I tried to explain to people include personalization. It’s more important to know the person who has the illness than the illness the person has.
Looking at biochemical individuality, I really look forward to talking about the importance of knowing where your biochemistry is taking you and blood work. Also important is to say, “Listen, this is a system. It’s not a silo. Everything connects together.” So when you’re fit and your heart is great, your gut is great—they’re all interconnected.
Also, looking at how best we can personalize it as citizen scientists, I like to take my Greek interest and say, “Are there deeper principles?” For instance, Plato said the whole is more important than the part.
Hmm, yeah, that’s excellent. That resonates so well, right? It’s kind of as we talk about this holistic wealth strategy all the time. It’s having all of the pieces of the puzzle to really define wealth as you want to define it, right? And really living life intentionally.
I think that’s really well said in terms of having all the different pieces of the puzzle. What struck me so much in my first meeting with Dr. Pappas was how insightful it was. We sat down, and rather than him just pulling up historical charts and talking about my hereditary disposition and things like that, he talked to me as a person.
He really talked to me about, “How are things going in my life? How are things going at work? How are things going on the home front?” Because all of these things really take effect on your overall health, your wellness, and your mindset.
I thought it was such a great approach. As a consequence, we’ve gotten to know each other very well. He’s been able to, basically, every time we have a meeting, look at blood panels and different markers, trying to make adjustments and dial those in.
But it’s also very well-balanced with your life and where you are currently in life. Are you having any big stresses? Then how can we make adjustments to fine-tune some of those things so you can really live in a state of what I would call peak performance?
Yeah, that’s so well put. I think about what a good life means, and to me—and I know to you—it means health, character, ethics, and intellect. Not many of us, successful men and women, achieve those and have that balance.
When I was impressed when we met, Dave, it was because you had a lot of good balance. No one is perfect all the time, and many of my successful men and women, when I meet them, I tell them, “Listen, you spent all your health trying to acquire wealth. Now your system is broken, and you have to use your wealth to acquire health. Wouldn’t it have been better—or maybe now—wouldn’t it be good to say, ‘I need to have some balance. I need to be the CEO of my own health and not function like a 1950s athlete who was just told to do more work and have no recovery?'”
To me, looking at these modern principles that the athletic world strives to talk about is so critical. I sensed that with you—you were more advanced. Definitely not all my stubborn guys are as talented as you, but even someone like you, who looks great with great body composition, had some areas that weren’t optimal. You were striving to make progress, and you had a great mindset.
We discussed goals, and I knew right away that you were eager to be the best version of yourself, to handle, as Jim Rohn said, “the winters.” After every fall comes a winter, but thankfully, after every winter comes the spring.
You had, as Jim Rohn said, the set of your sail already pretty good. I think a lot of my patients, especially those of us in our middle ages, don’t have a really good set of their sail, and they have just a couple of areas that are good.
Yeah, well said. I would add to that—it was just really powerful for me, and I would really encourage others to grasp what we’re talking about here. This is about taking action on your health and being proactive with it.
As you described earlier, the way Western medicine typically works—and even the way all the insurance companies operate—is built on some diagnosis. They look for a problem to treat. But when you approach health in this proactive manner, you’re finding out things you might not necessarily know.
Let me give you a shocking example from my own experience. About five years ago or so, I went in to see Dr. Pappas, and he recommended trying a new technique. I believe it was a sonogram-type technique, where they can actually check your arteries to see how they’re doing.
We came back with results, and you would think, given that I’ve been working out my whole life, eating well, and staying on top of things, that everything would look great. But we found one artery that was blocked over 50%.
What if I never knew that? At the time, you told me it was potentially a ticking time bomb—something that could cause a major issue down the road. Since then, I’m happy to report that we’ve adjusted the dials.
By the way, I think I now spend more on supplements than I do on groceries. However, in our last check-up, the results showed that my arteries are now comparable to those of someone five or six years younger.
Oh yeah, your delta and your change were incredible. I empathize—I’m not only the president; I’m a member of the club. I’ve had similar challenges myself. I understand that it’s not just about what we’re eating but also about what’s eating us. You recognized the wear and tear and took it as an opportunity to take action.
This isn’t my destiny. I’m going to make some tweaks, push some different levers—you intuitively knew that health is really an investment rather than an expense. I’m going to be using all the tools at my disposal, whether it’s exercise or exorcism, whether it’s medicine, a vitamin, a supplement, another lever, or another hack, so to speak.
Yeah, you’re a great example of turning things around and setting yourself on a much better trajectory because you were eager and open to exploring and using technology. For instance, can we use this sonogram of the neck called a CIMT that measures how thick the artery is and if there’s any plaque? Can we look at laboratory data to see where the River of Life is taking us? Can we try to fill in the gaps? Can we do a self-assessment?
I’m always impressed, Dave. You’re somebody who comes into our office, into our visits, almost like it’s a confessional. You share the things that are working for you, the things that aren’t, and ask what other tools or techniques you need.
What stands out is that you come in more than once. I have a lot of guys who come in once a year. I give them 10 assignments, and they do one. They’re like, “Oh yeah, I took my fish oil.” And I say, “But what about your sleep? Your workouts? Your goals?” They often fall short in those areas.
You, on the other hand, are constantly rechecking and revisiting multiple times a year. You lead by example for your team.
Yeah, it is. It is part of my goals practice, and every time we have a meeting, I like to come into my meetings prepared and understand, you know, hey, what were not only the goals but what new habits can I create that support them.
I’ve made some good progress this year. I’ve been working on my gut health, taking AG1, and there are some other hacks we can jump into in a little bit. But since we’re on this topic, this might be a nice segue into a recent article you and your brother Tom wrote, which really resonated so much with me. I think it will resonate with our audience as well, especially those who are hard-charging entrepreneurs and go-getters.
You talked about the concept of a corporate athlete. Maybe you can share with us your thoughts on that.
Absolutely, you know, Tom, like he was a former military man in the business world, and he lives in Europe. Both he and I realized that in our effort to mentor colleagues, friends, and family, the sports foundation was very helpful. We came across this term called “corporate athlete,” and there was research being done by sports psychologists who said that the modern corporate world— which I would say incorporates stay-at-home moms, solopreneurs, and those who have their own business— were treating themselves like athletes in the ’50s rather than modern athletes. The athletes evolved to having training time, not just being on, to recovery, to having a coach, and to looking at oscillation: you’re on, and then you’re off, using different modalities with the foundation of physical health.
We found out that most people in the corporate world just work on time management, just cognitive health. They don’t look at fitness or energy. They were reading Stephen Covey books on time management but weren’t looking at the foundation of energy. So, I resonated with it, started sharing it with our tribes, and we began brainstorming. We asked, “What’s a good foundation for leaders to work out?” We took some of those principles and melded them with our interest in Greek warriors, the Greek gymnasium, and men and women of ancient times, looking at mindset, philosophy, and workouts. There was definitely some overlap.
For example, a physical foundation. If you have a good physical foundation, then you can turn on your emotional flexibility, your cognitive flexibility, and then your spiritual flexibility, or your purpose. A lot of similarities, but also some differences. The ancient Greek athletes talked about the term “Agony,” and the term for an athlete or workout in Greek is the term for agony or the pain—the discipline. You’re looking at the philosophy, combining it with fitness and nutrition. The word “diet” comes from the Greek word “dieta,” which means lifestyle.
We used both of these principles and tried to put together some of these resources for people. I think the corporate athlete literature is a great start and something that you’ve been doing. We’ll get a link to all your listeners. It’s a great resource to say, “Hey, am I meeting these goals as a corporate athlete? What are some things I can do for myself and for my culture in the workforce?”
Yeah, it was really fascinating, Reid, and in fact, I mean, all of the literature that you’re creating is just really well put together and well thought out. So, I applaud you and Tom for putting that out and making it available for folks.
You know, it’s been really fascinating, and I can share with you and the audience—one of the biggest challenges for me during the pandemic was actually health-related. I had been in a role where I was always out meeting clients, traveling, and doing things like this. I really liked movement and always knew that about myself, which is probably why I’m into sports and everything.
But I literally had to change the way I worked when we got into this lockdown period, and sitting was creating a lot of problems. In fact, I had to get my knee scoped and had some issues with that. I believe it was directly proportional to COVID and everything, but it’s fascinating because, kind of like you were talking about, the modern-day corporate athlete versus the old days. I see myself as an athlete, and I think a lot more people should see themselves as athletes and how they approach work.
An athlete actually has three different phases: they’re either resting, preparing to compete, or competing. But often, in the time-and-effort economy, people just go to work and then they just work and fill the time. If you can structure yourself to be in more of a performance-based economy, when you’re on, you know you’re in your focus time, which would be the same as competing. You are on and constantly focused on mastery, and when you’re off, you can give yourself permission to completely unplug.
It’s a radically different way to work, and most of us—heck, I came out of the Marine Corps—so it was always about who’s the first one into the office, who’s the last one, who did PT harder. It’s not necessarily about working smarter, but in this day and age, you have to work smarter, not harder.
Yeah, that’s a great point. You know, you pushed upon some key terms. One of my interests with looking at the ancient athletes was they were competing, so competition is important, and then they were struggling with this term agon, as I mentioned, or agony, struggle. So, competition and struggle having disciplines, you know, our spiritual discipline. So, I think you’re spot on.
I would say, you know, I’m one of the few doctors in this country who have been treating COVID from the beginning. We’re very blessed to have treated over a thousand patients, and no one’s been hospitalized. I’m going to get some links to your listeners for our COVID action plan to look at what are things you can continue to do, but you focused on the terrain, not just the microbe. Right? Most patients were making the mistake. They’re like, “Oh, I’m going to focus on locking down and just putting a mask on or laying low,” rather than saying, “Listen, I can improve my terrain. You know, hygiene, a Greek goddess, is the concept of your health diet but your terrain, and say, ‘I’m going to build my terrain up. I’m going to have a continued good fitness, I’m going to sleep well, I’m going to take care of myself with respect, I’m going to recover.'”
That’s why you did very well. You know, a lot of people didn’t do well. Unfortunately, thankfully, there are many things to do for prevention and many off-label medicines that help a lot of folks. We’re getting recurrences, having problems. They think, “If I just got a vaccine, I was fine,” rather than saying, “Listen, I could be a wounded warrior.” And I love that metaphor that my brother and I use a lot. You know, we learn a lot from a wounded warrior. And I think you handled it well, even though it was a shock to the system. And I tell patients, you know, as part of that write-up, “First, know thyself,” right, as Socrates says, “Where are you?” Then create a battle plan.
You know, what I like about your approach in general, Dave, is that you’re always strategically thinking about the different aspects of your life. You know, what does the action plan, what’s the after-action plan review, you know, what are my goals? So, I think a lot of men and women don’t think strategically, and that’s why I really think the military thinking is important. Even those of us who are not in the military can learn a lot. I’ll often study, you know, your tribes to learn about, you know, that aspect—not just military history, but how do you focus on logistics and strategy to create a health plan for you and your family?
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Yeah, I love that. So the word “Health Plan”—you know, a lot of people have different approaches out there.
Dr. Atia talks about it as training for your centenarian Olympics, and I love his quote where he says, “Look, if you want to be doing the things you want to do, like pick up your grandkids in your last decade, I mean you’ve got to be kicking ass in your 50s.”
So, do you have an overarching kind of framework or approach that you would advise with your clients?
Well, you know, I do, and I didn’t necessarily develop it, but I kind of tweak it. Again, I think looking back at the ancient Greeks, one of the things I was impressed with was the ancient Greek Miracle of Wellness, which incorporated strict dieting and fasting, intense exercise, regular meditational walks, lessons on character and ethics, and contemplating the cosmos, often with a walk.
It’s easier to do that in Greece than it is in Virginia—much better in Florida or Texas—but it’s a very fascinating, holistic approach, saying we’re going to do the fitness, eat well, and of course focus on character and ethical training. The ancient Greek gymnasium of philosophy also contemplated the cosmos. So, that’s kind of my foundation and my prism when I look at how I approach wellness, and a lot of Peter Attia’s work—I think he’s great—and you know, it makes sense.
Again, these are things that patients get surprised about when I tell them, “Listen, the fitness level may be more important for your longevity than the diet lever.” But if you don’t have good character and ethics, what’s your mindset going to be like? Are you contemplating? A lot of patients in the wellness world—and I believe in the reasonable critique from within—right, in each category.
When I’m in the wellness world or the academic medical world, a lot of the wellness world says, “We’re just going to do some deep breathing, and we’re going to be fine.” My take is, “Listen, you still have to slay that dragon.” Personally, I will meditate with exercise or a walk—a kind of low steady-state cardio that gets me time to think. But then we still have to strategize to conquer that dragon and talk about what you’re going to do for your passion, for your work, for your family, and for the goals you’ve set.
So, well, Dave, I think a lot of modern health is not unlike wealth, where you can’t just have it for the sake of having it. You’ve always said to me, “Look, well, it’s important, but what are you going to do with it? Are you going to show it off, like your six-pack and your bank account, or are you going to use it for purposeful good?”
What I’ve always been impressed with is that you take care of a lot of successful men who don’t have a good quality of character and ethics, but you have that character, that ethical approach, and you always look at wealth and financial success as a tool to help us achieve other worthy goals.
I appreciate that. What I’d like to do now is really make this actionable for people. You know, one of the things—kind of talking about that example where I found my artery blocked, right—and luckily, I took this proactive approach to trying to treat that. But…
It’s really sad that, I mean, we listen to great podcasts or TED Talks, or we read a book, and how often are we moved by some really compelling story? Someone had a loss of a loved one, they had a chronic illness, or something of that nature, which then put them on a trajectory to actually change the course of their life.
I would love to try to encourage people to really do some deep thinking about their health, their vision, and what it is that they want in life. Think about the future.
So, what are some things—if there were just a few key takeaways—that you could recommend to people? What could they start working on today?
Yeah, that’s a great point. I try to do that in some of the links that I have for your listeners. For example, there’s a discussion about the importance of laboratory studies, and I talk about which markers are important, which ones to ask for, and how to go about asking for them. You can now even do it yourself and get labs ordered through a third party.
There are some links there, but what are some of the key metrics beyond just the typical stuff? There are markers now to look at inflammation in the arteries, hormones, and nutrient deficiencies. For instance, essential fats—we’ve known for the longest time that the more omega-3 or healthy fats you have, the better your brain is. Why are they recommending high levels of omega-3, fish oil, and krill oil for Special Forces? It’s because they are very good for resiliency. I have some information on that to collect some data.
There’s also information on that artery scan that you and I do regularly. I have a discussion about that and a link to the number one company that does this. You can actually contact them and say, “Hey, who has this test in the city or state I live in? I want to get it done.” I want to encourage patients to be proactive, check out their arteries, and see how young or old their arteries are.
I also have information about the role of supplements, how I think about them, how to go about it, and which are some good areas to look at. There are also links where people can get more information on that. Additionally, I have a link to a questionnaire that I do regularly with all my clients called an MSQ (Multiple Symptom Questionnaire). It goes over a variety of symptoms and gives you a score from 0 to 99.
Most people should be in the lower third. A lot of patients are in their 50s or 60s on the scale. There’s some research now that uses this as a marker of aging. A woman whose work I like uses this questionnaire every time she sees a person, along with other metrics, to determine how well the person is aging. If your GI system is off, you’re not focusing well, you have a lot of joint pain, and the score is high, you’re not really aging well. So that’s a good resource.
I also have a resource on COVID because we can’t escape it, but I want people to be smart about how they look at it. Do they need to look at some of the data? There are specific markers that help us determine things about our immune system, whether we’re inflamed, and our chances of getting COVID. You can even look at COVID antibodies now. Does everyone need to be on a vaccine? My take was that the vaccine was not a shield but a safety net. It was the best option, but it wasn’t for everyone and wasn’t enough for most people. I have some details on that as well.
I then close on one of the articles about what my brother and I try to do to motivate our tribes and the people we mentor. It’s about thinking, “How do you get to your goal?” It’s about closing the GAP. G stands for gymnastiki, which is a Greek word for exercise, purposeful fitness, gymnasium, or gym exercise. A stands for ascesis, which is spiritual purpose, focus, and discipline. P stands for philosophy—your outlook and perspective. Where are you in that GAP? Can you use those terms to close the gap on your goals?
There are ways for people to reach me if they have any questions. They can message me through our practice and website, and I’d be happy to answer any questions people have if I can be of some value to them.
Yeah, no, that is really helpful, and I definitely recommend checking out these links. We’ll make sure everything is posted in the show notes so you will be able to access them. It’s really valuable data.
As I mentioned before, what Dr. Popis is talking about is not something your average physician is discussing. This is a very different approach, and some of the markers—I mean, I think we should touch on that a little bit as well, right?
A lot of people say, “Well, sure, I have blood work done.” But what’s actually being analyzed? You can articulate this much better than I can, but there are, let’s just say, a lot more markers you’re evaluating and looking at in the whole picture. Would that be fair?
Absolutely. I’m always amazed when a patient comes to me and says, “My doctor checked everything out,” and it turns out it was only five tests. I tell them, “I’m doing 30 or 40 tests,” and they’re mostly, if not all, covered by insurance. There’s no reason not to do it.
What’s stopping you from knowing your hormone pattern? For example, with men—since I often work with stubborn men—women tend to grasp these concepts right away, but we guys sometimes need a different approach. The interaction and interface of the stress hormone cortisol, glucose or insulin hormone, and testosterone hormone are crucial.
I have a lot of men who look great but have the testosterone levels of a 60-year-old due to stress, alcohol intake (a double-edged sword), lack of fitness, and lack of sleep. So, where are your hormones taking you?
We measure all these hormones, looking at markers of inflammation. There’s a variety, from CRP to inflammation in the arteries. One of my favorite nutritionists, Johnny Bowden, talks about the “Four Horsemen of Aging,” which are:
Glucose control—how sticky your blood is and what your sugar levels are.
Inflammation—do you have an overactive immune system?
Oxidative stress or free radicals.
Chronic stress.
These are not just subjective; you can objectively measure them. I was impressed that you had very good adrenals and cortisol stress hormones for an athlete. Some of the guys you and I know just don’t have the same levels.
Glucose, for instance, is not just for diabetics. The lower, the better. The higher the glucose, the smaller the brain. Are you measuring these metrics? Are you looking at insulin, oxidative stress, or free radicals? Do you have any “hooligans” impacting your cells?
You can measure that. Then, ask yourself: do you need more colors in your diet? Do you need a vitamin? Are you overtraining?
Cardiovascular health is a subject I’m very passionate about, as I know you are. I’ll include links for listeners about the top 10 cardiac markers they should be asking for. These include an advanced cholesterol profile, which measures how many particles of cholesterol are floating, the size of the cholesterol, and different types of inflammation—some of which are more linked to heart disease than others.
There’s even a test that measures heart strain. Do you have a happy heart? One of the problems many people face in middle age is snoring and sleep apnea. I measure markers of heart strain and often find changes in the heart, detected through blood tests, that could correlate to arrhythmias and more.
These top 10 detailed markers also include looking at blood coagulation and sticky blood. I’ll have that list available for people so they can go ask for it. This process entails 20 to 30 vials of blood. If you and I can handle it, anyone can. Interestingly, men often struggle with this more than women.
Finally, this provides an idea of where you are at the moment, where your “River of Life” is flowing, and where you can go from here.
I think these tools will be incredibly valuable for your listeners. They should strive to follow in your footsteps. It’s never too late. Whether someone is 70 or 17, it’s always possible to make a U-turn.
I agree, and I think we can’t finish today’s conversation without jumping into a little bit on biohacking.
I’ve shared my goal with you—that I want to live to 116. So, I have a lifespan goal, but I also have a health span goal. It might have seemed outrageous 20 years ago, but with some of the advances in technology, it’s becoming more feasible.
A lot of this is about mindset. If you have the financial means, meaningful friendships, and relationships with people who are also thriving—not necessarily dying off—and if you’re living an intentional life, then I think there’s definitely the potential to live a bit longer.
I’ve been fascinated with trying different things out. This year, I’ve been working on NMN to increase my NAD levels, which supports cellular health. I’ve been combining that with resveratrol, and I definitely want to talk to you next time about trying to get into rapamycin or exploring some of that.
Are there any biohacking tips, supplements, or strategies on your mind this year?
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean some of the macro things versus microscopic things. On the macro level, the world of not just what we eat but when we eat.
Again, fascinated by this fasting movement that I’ve been embracing since day one because, you know, our Greek tribes and our Eastern Orthodox Christian faith has fasted for thousands of years based on a church calendar. So, I grew up 200 days of the year being told by my grandmother that we should be plant-based and vegetarian—so omnivores and plant-based. The concept of fasting is interesting. So, not just an intermittent fast, which is fine, but maybe, you know, what we eat and when we eat.
You know, I’ve personally gone to a few days a week, often on a Friday to Monday, before and after the weekend, to just having one meal a day. I usually will have maybe like a greens powder, which has a lot of nutrients in there, maybe some green tea, some black coffee, but just not eat anything until the next, until the end of the day. So, I might go from Sunday night to Monday night. So, I find a recovery and a fast is really important. There was a book called The Warrior’s Diet, what the Greek and Roman warriors ate, and this author started the intermittent fasting craze.
He said people on campaign, these warriors, under-ate if anything at all during their campaigns during their battles, which you and I have every day and your listeners do. So, under-eating versus intermittent fasting versus one meal a day is a really, really good hack. Some guys can do that, you know, all week, but not just fasting. A lot of my guys fast and then lose muscle mass. So fasting and feasting, I think, is important as well. So, not just fasting every day.
I’m also very much a fan of the concept of using the outdoors in the sun. I think a lot of my northern European friends are concerned about getting sun exposure, and I tell them it’s sun burning that’s the problem. Protecting the face is important, but skin cancer risks have increased in modern times. You know, the Irish and the Scots had less of it back in the day. So, it’s more than just the sun exposure, but I routinely will work out, part of my work at least, my body composition exercises and my stretching outdoors, you know, from April until November here in Northern Virginia, often with the shirt off.
You know, not to show off my physique, but to get that sun because the sun helps with the hormones as well as Vitamin D. So, working outdoors and exercising outdoors—a lot of guys are just in gyms or in their basement—so doing some things outdoors is really, really important.
The role of hot and cold—there’s been a big push on using hot techniques and cold techniques. Again, you know, thinking of the Turkish hammam, the Scandinavians, the Russian banya, right? Every culture had these saunas, spas. So, for many, many years, I’ve been using a portable sauna and hot baths. You can get an inexpensive, high-quality portable sauna for a couple hundred bucks. That’s really, really good. And you use that as a workout and then also post-workout.
But a lot of research shows that the sauna changes the biochemistry and actually helps with brain growth—not only detoxification. It’s great for the heart. It’s great for stress. So, I’ll routinely use that as well. So, it’s kind of macro things I think are very, very good.
And then, on the micro level, you know, are there some really good tools? What are some of my favorite supplements that I’ve been a big fan of recently? One of them is playing around with different greens powders. I found one that has some mushroom extracts as well. Most of them have a lot of good antioxidants. There’s a company called Thorn that has mushroom extracts and Resveratrol and curcumin, as well as some other, and I think NAD as well.
And I’m a big fan of that in adaptogens because the mushroom extractions have been a big, big fan of some mushroom extracts. You can get that in coffees and capsules, but they’re great for the immune system. They’re great for COVID. I love greens powders.
I’m still bullish on fish oil. I mean, getting high levels is really important for athletes. High doses of collagen are really good for joint pain. So, I’m very enamored with the use of collagen. I think the things that you mentioned are great that you’re doing. Resveratrol and NMN are great.
One of my favorite underappreciated supplements is aged garlic extract by a company called Kyolic, a Japanese company that for many, many years has been studying intensely this garlic that they age over 10 years. It has amazing antioxidant properties. So, it not only increases glutathione, it’s great for heart disease and plaque and artery age. It’s great for gut health. It’s an amazing antioxidant. It’s one of my favorites.
The company has a lot of combinations where they have that garlic extract with some immune stuff or with some heart stuff, but a powerful product that I think most people should be using.
And then using the so-called nootropics. Are there things that can help us get locked in to do deep work? As the famous Cal Newport says, how do you do deep work? Do you exercise for a while and then get into a deep work state? I think that’s great. Would a sauna and ice bath help? Probably, yes.
But then taking some nutrients—not just the famous caffeine—but are there other things that can help? There’s a whole bunch of them, from lion’s mane, that mushroom extract, things like carnitine and CoQ10. There’s a whole large list, even without a prescription, that I recommend people to experiment with as a citizen scientist.
A lot of companies have these combinations of these nootropics or supplements that can help—things that have like tyrosine and antioxidants in it, grape seed extract. But I think these are really important tools. Then, if you ahead of time set up and block your time and say, “Listen, I’m going to do deep work. I’m going to listen to today’s podcast and then take some action.”
You need to have a locked-in mind in a quiet environment. You need your brain to be firing on all cylinders. Maybe you work out first and then take your cup of coffee and then get locked in. So, there are a lot of really good tools that I encourage patients to look at.
Yeah, that’s really excellent, and I think I’m going to add one more thing to this list. Again, it kind of goes back to our overall strategy and my approach. My personal goals have been:
One of my top goals every year is to increase my health IQ by at least 10 percent. So, instead of listening to business podcasts on the weekend and learning things, I spend time looking at Andrew Huberman and reading your content. I would definitely recommend for people to start learning more about what some of this can do. It’s actually really fascinating, and as you put some of these things into practice, which I have done many of the things you recommended, it’s just amazing.
It’s incredible how much more you can improve your energy levels and the neuroplasticity of your mind. All of these things come together, and it’s very powerful.
Absolutely. I mean, you and I are experimenting ourselves, and I think you and I are healthier now than we were five or ten years ago. This is a great sign and a great role model for others and the next generation. The challenge is, unfortunately, that a lot of the current military has to change their standards because they’re not as fit physically and mentally. I think of you and my brother, and you guys are more fit than these 18-year-old men and women going into the military. They can learn a lot from what we’re doing, from the Hubermans, the Atias, Ben Greenfield, and all these great guys you and Bob know. I wholeheartedly agree.
Excellent, Dr. Pappas. I can’t thank you enough for coming on and sharing your time with us today. It’s really been an honor to have you on my team. I’m really grateful for your time and for being able to share some of your insights and wisdom with the audience today.
You’re very welcome. Thank you so much. I’m excited, and congratulations on this new chapter. We love the podcast, and I utilize your story with many men. You’ve been a good role model, although you set a tough standard. A lot of guys fall short, but I think they’ll think of you as they try to work out more.
I appreciate that. I’ve got a long way to go, but I know I’m in good hands.
Excellent. You take care, my friend.
Thanks again.