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Today’s episode features a remarkable guest, Ben West, 
co-founder of Pragma Energy and an accomplished expert at the crossroads of energy and capital markets. Ben brings close to a decade of experience working globally with C-suite leaders, family offices, and institutional investors, lending him a unique 360-degree perspective on the energy sector. As demand for energy surges worldwide and innovations like artificial intelligence push U.S. power needs to unprecedented heights, Ben joins host Dave Wolcott to unpack the real risks and opportunities in this critical, often misunderstood, asset class.
Ben’s journey into energy investing began in Europe and has taken him from brokering high-level industry relationships to launching Pragma, a platform providing pragmatic, holistic conversations around energy needs and capital reinvestment. In this educational episode, Ben breaks down the complexities of energy investing for both newcomers and experienced investors. He discusses how changing global dynamics—from post-pandemic supply shocks to shifts in public policy and evolving international markets—are driving capital flows, shaping infrastructure challenges, and presenting exceptional opportunities for those willing to lean into the sector.
Listeners will walk away with a clear understanding of why energy remains foundational to our economy, and how passive investment in the sector can unlock consistent cash flow, powerful tax advantages, and long-term upside.
In This Episode
- The fundamentals and investment landscape of the energy sector
- How global demand and technologies like AI are transforming infrastructure needs
- Opportunities and challenges in the natural gas market
- Key risks and due diligence considerations for energy investors
There is no doubt we anticipate significant natural gas demand growth, as I said previously, and I think the US in particular is poised to take advantage of this.
Welcome to the Wealth Strategy Secrets of the Ultra Wealthy podcast, where we help entrepreneurs like you exponentially build wealth through passive income to live a life of freedom and prosperity. Are you tired of paying too much in taxes, gambling your future on the stock market, and want to learn about hidden strategies for making your money work for you? And now, your host, Dave Wolcott, serial entrepreneur and author of the bestselling book The Holistic Wealth Strategy.
How’s it going, everyone? And welcome back to another episode of Wealth Strategy Secrets of the Ultra Wealthy. Today, we’re diving into one of the most critical, yet often misunderstood sectors for investors: energy. From oil and gas to infrastructure and power, this space is not only foundational to our economy, but it also is facing massive shifts as global demand surges and technology like AI drives unprecedented energy needs. I’m joined by Ben West, co-founder of Pragma Energy, who has spent nearly a decade working at the intersection of capital markets and energy operators worldwide. Ben has a unique 360-degree perspective on the sector, having worked closely with C-suite leaders, family offices, and institutional investors across Europe, Latin America, North America, and Asia. Today, he’s going to help us unpack where the real opportunities and risks lie for investors looking at energy, why infrastructure is a critical piece of the puzzle, and how to think about building a thesis in this misunderstood but vital asset class.
If you’ve ever wondered how to access the sector, what role oil and gas and renewables will play in the years ahead, and how energy investing can deliver the trifecta of returns with cash flow, tax advantages, and upside appreciation, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss. Ben, welcome to the show.
Dave, thanks for having me on. It’s good to speak with you again.
Absolutely, Ben. Always good to connect. And I think this is going to be really insightful for our audience to help them get a better sense, as investors into the energy sector, of the different areas that are promising. Not only production around oil and gas and what’s upstream, but also from the infrastructure side, which you represent as well. So people can hone in on their thesis and really talk about why this is such a good sector, as we’ve known for many years now. So before we begin, why don’t you help the audience by telling us a little bit about your origin story, how you got into the energy sector, and where you are today.
Absolutely, thanks Dave. I’ve been in the energy sector coming on close to a decade now. I didn’t necessarily actively pursue the energy sector — I think the energy sector really found me. In a previous life, I was living in Barcelona. I worked for the British Chamber of Commerce in Spain, which was focused on facilitating bilateral investment between the British and Spanish economies. At the time, I wanted to move back to London. I was looking for opportunities there and came across an organization called the Energy Council, which was a Blackstone-backed organization.
It specialized in brokering relationships between financiers, investors, and energy companies across the value chain. It did that by organizing a series of C-suite executive conferences and more tailored, bespoke engagements. I loved my time there. I got to work across European markets and Latin American markets. I also worked out of the group’s Singapore office before COVID, and then moved on to the North American portfolio, where I had the opportunity to lead for four years and also launch the group’s investor engagement efforts globally. So it wasn’t necessarily an active move but really a result of wanting to come back to London. I was fortunate to meet some good people and have some good conversations, which led to that role. As I said, I loved my time at that organization and had the opportunity to connect with C-suite executives, both at operators across the oil and gas value chain and across the energy transition value chain.
As that became more prominent and more of a focus for many stakeholders, we were also speaking with capital providers and investment managers across the capital stack, from large institutional allocators down to single family offices. It was a really rich and rewarding seven years that I was with Energy Council. Now, coming on a year ago — it will be a year next week — I moved on and launched Pragma with two former colleagues, Amy Miller, Pragma’s current CEO, and Jack Ingram, our Chief Commercial Officer. That’s been my journey so far in the energy industry. It’s definitely been an exciting one, an eye-opening one, and I’ve definitely caught the bug. I’m here for the long term.
The last time we connected was at the NASDAQ in last year’s event that the Energy Council held. What a phenomenal event it was, hosting some of the top thought leaders and operators in the space and really understanding where some of the opportunities are, where some of the risks lie across the entire sector and value chain, as you pointed out. You’ve had such a great opportunity to see a 360-degree view inside the industry. I’m interested to hear a little bit more about what you’re doing at Pragma and on the infrastructure side. But before we jump into that, I think it’s really helpful to help investors understand the energy ecosystem as a whole. Maybe we can start at that 30,000-foot level and break it down, because many people have never invested. It’s actually a lot harder, I think, to invest into the energy sector as an accredited investor. Some people talk about the amazing tax benefits they have to offset active income.
Why don’t you talk high-level about the sector from your perspective, and then maybe we can drill into some opportunity areas.
For high-income earners, oil and gas investing can actually offset active income-creating both wealth growth and tax efficiency.
Absolutely, and I’m happy to go into that. Alluding to your point, a lot of conversations we’ve had with family offices and more generalist investors revolve around the challenges they face when it comes to not necessarily having deep energy investing expertise or a team with a track record or in-house capabilities to evaluate the different technical risks that come with energy sector investing — whether that’s subsurface, geopolitical, or commodity price risk. These are themes that definitely come up in conversations we have with different groups we engage with.
In terms of Pragma and our view on energy, we launched the business a year ago because our belief was that the oil and gas industry had been vilified. It didn’t receive due credit for the good work it does in providing reliable, affordable, secure energy to the world, and it didn’t receive due recognition for its ability to leverage balance sheets, workforces, and experience in rolling out wide-scale commercial projects, applying these to longer-term decarbonization goals and initiatives.
We’ve definitely seen a shift in sentiment towards oil and gas and the fossil fuel industry since the new Trump administration came into office earlier this year. Prior to that, the narrative — and to a large degree still is, especially here in Europe where I sit — had become very polarized into “no more fossil fuels.” That’s the first hurdle where groups — policymakers, investors, capital providers, public groups, and campaigning groups — fall down. The biggest misconception people have is the sheer scale and volume of energy required in this world.
I’m happy to go into detail and provide stats and touchpoints to give context, but the sheer scale of energy required is not widely understood. At Pragma, what we’re doing is building a platform that brings multiple stakeholders together to facilitate a pragmatic, holistic conversation about the need for reinvestment into the sector. The sector needs more capital now than ever before if it’s to meet the ever-growing energy demand anticipated — whether that’s from AI and data centers being developed across North America or growth from developing markets and economies like India, China, Southeast Asia, and Africa. A vast quantity of energy will be needed.
The conversation should not be a case of either/or. The fact is, we need all forms of energy feeding into the system to meet growing demand. Looking at the opportunity within the energy industry, let me share some observations from conversations we’ve had with C-suite executives over the past couple of years.
At both the operator level and across the finance and investment landscape, the traditional energy sector has experienced an unprecedented outflow of capital in recent years. In 2014, about $60 billion of capital was raised for traditional energy funds. By 2022, that figure had dropped to $2–3 billion — record lows for the space.
There were obvious drivers behind this flight of capital: poor performance from the industry, lack of discipline among management teams, ESG headwinds, and many investors being burned. The industry was widely perceived as being a poor steward of generalist capital. Subsequently, a lot of LP dollars — a lot of generalist capital — left the space. Many LP dollars transitioned to energy transition funds, which we considered a mispricing of risk. We don’t yet have commercial hydrogen or large-scale nuclear.
Nuclear is a hotspot at the moment — it’s definitely dominating many conversations. But these projects have long lead times, regulatory and policy constraints, and bottlenecks to overcome. Many investors aren’t yet comfortable with that, or willing to wait out the long lead times required for returns on capital invested. There are also recycling opportunities not yet proven at scale. From our perspective, the danger was LP dollars getting invested in assets not ready for private equity. That was especially prominent during COVID.
As we came out of COVID, many investors found it easy to point at poor performance and say they wouldn’t invest in energy because of ESG. But the reality is the tone and narrative of that conversation is shifting and will continue to shift. Over the past 12 to 18 months, we’ve seen various funds raise capital again. There’s been an uptick in availability to the sector and more positive conversations around fossil fuels and oil and gas. Part of the reason is that the industry has become much more disciplined. Debt is down substantially, and distributions are higher. However, as I mentioned earlier, the number of active funds in the space is fewer, and the sizes of funds raised are smaller than historical averages.
The fact is, the amount of capital the industry now requires, coupled with energy demand and growth forecasts domestically in North America and internationally, presents a compelling opportunity for capital allocators willing to lean into the space. I’ve said a lot, so I’m happy to pause there.
The energy sector needs pragmatic strategies-fueled by capital, technology, talent, and advocacy – to achieve both decarbonisation and energy security.
That’s great context, Ben. I think one of the biggest headwinds was the pandemic, when pricing basically went negative and the whole industry seized up. What people need to realize is, from an infrastructure perspective, it takes years to put infrastructure in place before you actually have production. When the industry seized, it halted production for a number of years. Combined with other headwinds, there hasn’t been capital inflow into the sector. But we need that lead time to create infrastructure before production can begin.
Another big driver changing the narrative now is AI and its demand for energy. Lastly, I think you said it well, but I’d like to emphasize: it’s not one or the other. We need all forms of energy. Regardless of industry or geography, the demand for energy is outpacing availability. These are fundamentals we look for as investors.
Absolutely. There’s a huge amount to unpack, and many infrastructure investment opportunities present themselves as a result of the bottlenecks you alluded to. Starting with AI — it’s viewed as a transformative force, already dwarfing fintech and industrials in scale. To put it in context, generative AI is 2.5 times larger than fintech and industrials combined.
For power demand growth, generative AI is expected to require roughly 200 terawatt hours of additional power over the next five years. In layman’s terms, US power demand is expected to triple by the end of this decade. That shows the scale of the challenge we face, but also the scale of opportunity for those willing to fund the space.
The key challenge has been permitting issues. Under the previous administration, there was a lot of red tape and uncertainty for investors. Concerns around project delays, rising costs, and uncertainty of when capital providers would see returns made investors cautious.
Outside of AI and power, gas is also a compelling investment opportunity for those who can wrap their heads around it. We’re anticipating significant natural gas demand growth. Looking at AI and power, the question becomes: where is the energy coming from? Renewables face challenges of scale and intermittency. Solar works when the sun shines, wind when it blows — but not 24/7. Battery storage at scale isn’t here yet.
The first priority for companies developing data centers is to have 100% reliable, affordable energy 100% of the time. The abundant resource that can provide this is natural gas. It’s reliable, affordable, and has a strong environmental case. Natural gas has less than 50% of the carbon intensity of oil and is much cleaner than coal. The US has been the most successful nation in reducing emissions by switching from coal to gas.
In countries like India and China, roughly 50% of electricity generation comes from coal-fired assets. As they convert grids to gas, the opportunity to reduce emissions is huge. But it’s also a challenge that will take time. The US has the resources, but the challenge is getting them to demand hubs. Grid infrastructure hasn’t been updated in 40 years, and it doesn’t have the capacity for additional power generation.
There are other opportunities and innovative solutions that big tech companies, infrastructure developers, and energy producers are pursuing to overcome these challenges. But the reality is we need to vastly upgrade infrastructure, streamline permitting, and provide long-term regulatory certainty to give capital providers confidence. Only then can we scale infrastructure and supply energy to demand centers.
Yeah. So let’s talk about gas a little bit because I think that is a big opportunity area. Right. And for listeners, what’s fascinating is I think we’re trading in the low threes on gas today, but I believe last time I looked, Japan, it’s actually in the 20s, substantially higher. I know in Europe it’s much higher as well. And they are trying to now move off of this dependency on Russia to try to figure out their own resources there.
But as you said, we have limitations in terms of the infrastructure that’s in place. How do you move LNG around the globe these days? Even if we can source it, how can you do that on a cost-effective and reliable basis? So any thoughts there in terms of advances in technologies on the infrastructure side and what does the landscape look like for energy on a global basis moving forward?
Yeah, I mean, it’s a big question and there’s a lot to unpack. I think there is no doubt we anticipate significant natural gas demand growth, as I said previously, and I think the US in particular is poised to take advantage of this. You alluded to Europe in particular and the position it finds itself in. It had allowed itself to develop this dependency on Russian gas. The events of the past couple of years have created this urgency to ease and wane itself off this reliance that developed on Russian gas. I think it’s really exposed a lot of the flaws in European energy policy.
I think a lot of these governments and jurisdictions across the region had strived to roll out pro-renewable and renewable energy systems. They had prioritized decarbonisation of the energy mix ahead of energy reliability. You mentioned the price indexes we’re seeing across these different regions. That’s starting to play out in terms of the cost of gas in the US, where there’s an abundance of the resource, versus some of these other regions. It’s night and day. When you look at the policy and the way that, I mean, I look at the UK in particular, it’s where I’m based. The way the government has set out to destroy the oil and gas industry in the North Sea is ludicrous.
When you think about the resource we have available on our doorstep, this demand doesn’t go anywhere anytime soon. This demand still exists. We just end up importing a lot of these resources from other jurisdictions, paying tax revenues to other jurisdictions, creating jobs and employment in other jurisdictions, and then you’ve got the emissions profile associated with shipping a lot of these commodities around the world. The point being, Europe in particular has not had this holistic mindset and approach about the need for all forms of energy as it relates to sourcing energy to meet its power demand. It’s outsourcing a lot of its industrial activity. Energy really is a regressive tax on life if it’s not cost competitive.
As a result of ill-thought-through energy policies across the region, we’re seeing a lot of the industrial activity outsourced to other regions which do have competitive energy policies and an abundance of energy access. In terms of the opportunity within gas, looking at it internationally, we’re anticipating demand growth from developing countries. A lot of that growth will primarily come from coal. Over half of China and India’s power supply comes from coal. In the Americas and Europe, that’s more like 15–20%. Over time, we expect countries like China and India to switch from coal to gas. This means a tailwind of demand forecast for US gas.
If we look at a couple of stats, US LNG export demand is expected to grow from roughly 11% of US production to roughly 20% over the next five years. Physical capacity to export US natural gas is expected to more than double through 2030 as additional LNG facilities go live. So the moral of the story is the US has this unique opportunity and I think it’s really well positioned as a low-cost producer of natural gas.
And in the context of many other industries across the country, there aren’t many that can boast being as competitive as the US natural gas industry is on a global scale from a cost standpoint — able to meet this growing demand and provide the world with low-carbon, reliable, affordable gas as this demand continues to play out.
Yeah, absolutely. So Ben, if you were an investor today, where we are in the cycle and everything going on, where would you be looking to allocate capital? Where are some of the best opportunities people should be looking for?
It’s a good question. I think there’s an abundance of opportunity. I would say there are two key asset classes that are standing out and generating a lot of interest. From the conversations we’re having with different investors across the capital stack, the first is around the oil, gas, and mineral space. In the big bill that’s been passed in recent months, one of the effects is subsidies in the renewable space are set to come to an end over the coming 12–24 months. As such, the onus has moved onto oil, gas, and minerals properties, where there is opportunity for investors. We’ve seen a lot of interest from real estate investors in particular, looking to defer capital gains tax and allocate their capital into oil, gas, and minerals properties — continuing to reinvest to take advantage of tax benefits and efficiencies and maximize the wealth and capital they’ve generated. The other opportunity is around the power space.
As I’ve alluded to, the sheer scale of energy demand growth anticipated in that subsector of the energy industry can’t be ignored. People are understanding the interconnectivity between the oil and gas industry, the technology industry, and the power industry, and how all are dependent upon one another to meet this growing demand. Looking at infrastructure opportunities across the power space, the opportunity to develop off-grid, behind-the-meter solutions to provide the power required to drive and operate facilities and assets, can’t be ignored. The scale of the opportunity is incredibly exciting for those willing to lean into the space. As I mentioned earlier, the amount of capital that has left the energy sector is massive. I’ve said it before: the sector needs capital today more than ever. That’s across all subsectors of energy. This industry has been starved of capital.
It’s an industry that has learned its lessons from the past. It’s restructured itself, reduced debt, improved governance structures, and management incentives. As a result, it’s become a more disciplined industry prioritizing shareholder objectives and goals. There are two considerations when looking at opportunities going forward. Some investors want to prioritize cash flow and regular distributions. For them, there are high-quality teams to partner with across minerals, royalties, and upstream landscapes, where teams have built strong positions of PDP and producing assets that generate returns and regular distributions. For investors with more patience, long-term capital, and higher risk appetite, there are incredible opportunities of scale in infrastructure and oil and gas development.
During and after COVID, a lot of investors had been burned, and shareholders were keen for companies to prioritize cash flow over growth at all costs. That’s still the case, but there’s recognition that many assets and basins are maturing and declining. Companies operating these assets need to replenish reserves and inventories. The opportunity to pair PDP cash-flowing assets with development upside is generating a lot of interest. International opportunities are also emerging. Many Lower 48 basins are mature, so there’s rising interest in basins with similar qualities elsewhere in the world. Groups like Continental and AOG have invested internationally. In Turkey, for example. There’s interest in the Vaca Muerta in Argentina. If Argentina establishes the right fiscal and regulatory environment, that could come to the fore. In Australia, Tamboran Resources sits on the Beetaloo Basin, estimated by advisors to be on the scale of the Marcellus in the US Northeast. It’s early days for these international opportunities, but they present interesting scale for US operators and investors to apply shale expertise abroad.
To summarize, three key opportunities: PDP assets and minerals/royalties assets across North America; infrastructure assets required to take resources to market and demand hubs; and international plays where US companies with expertise can expand if regulatory environments allow.
Yeah. Now one of the things that I really love about this sector that supports our investment thesis, outside of strong macroeconomic fundamentals, also non-correlation to the stock market, is really key. But in addition to that, something you pointed out there, which is really the flexibility of this asset class to do three different things from a return profile standpoint as an investor. One is to generate consistent cash flow — that is one key factor. The second is taxes. If you’re newer to investing in oil and gas, one of the great things about this is you can actually offset your active income. So if you’re a high-income earner with capital gains taxes, investing in this sector will provide a very healthy offset in addition to a return. So we have tax efficiency there, number two. And number three, we have this forced appreciation play, where we can drive value into these assets, whether those be infrastructure assets or value-add type assets. Constantly growing and scaling presents upside potential for investors as well.
So depending on your priority, it really does give a nice trifecta of a return profile, similar to the real estate asset class. Now, Ben, what about from a risk profile standpoint and also a diligence perspective? Are there any key things that investors, if they were looking to allocate to the sector, you’d recommend they look out for or start to work through in terms of their due diligence?
Absolutely. And I think that’s something we’re really set on trying to help generalist family office groups unpack. The feedback we’ve received is energy is a very technical industry. There’s a lot of language in there that can be hard to wrap your head around. There are a lot of considerations and a lot of volatility, which takes time to get comfortable with if it’s not a sector that you have studied, have a track record in, or have much experience in. So for us, we’re very focused on bringing different family office groups together to engage in conversation with one another and share notes on the opportunities presenting themselves in the market and what are the right types of vehicles.
A lot of the families and generalist investors we speak with have said over the last 12–18 months they feel underexposed when it comes to energy. They haven’t necessarily taken advantage of the opportunities or returns potential that have developed since we came out of the COVID pandemic. Therefore, they’re interested in understanding who are the top quartile management teams, whether at an operator level or GP level, that they can partner with to increase their exposure and allocations to the space. What are the right types of vehicles? What are the pros and cons of different strategies — mineral, upstream operating, infrastructure, transition? Which are best aligned with their particular interests and returns expectations?
So maybe to come back to your question — when asking what are the key challenges that come up in conversations with family offices across our network, I think a few consistently arise. How can a generalist LP or family office overcome the challenges of underwriting oil and gas deals that often require a full dedicated staff consisting of a technical team, land team, etc.? On a risk-adjusted basis, are returns in the private sector generating enough above public markets to warrant an illiquidity premium? How can family offices focused on long-term recurring earnings navigate the unpredictable nature of oil and gas markets, which can significantly impact timelines and profitability? How can pooling expertise and resources lead to more robust project outcomes and shared risks?
Another interesting trend over the last 12–18 months is: what are the pros and cons of fund structure versus asset discretion? How might the diligence process for a typical deal in an investment manager differ from diligence in a direct deal? There’s a lot to unpack there, but those are a number of the conversations we’ve had with families interested in the space. Many of them don’t necessarily have current exposure to energy or much exposure at all, but they see the opportunity given the macroeconomic trends we’ve discussed today, the upside potential, and the fact that so much capital has left the sector.
From my perspective — and again, we don’t provide investment advice, we’re not a broker, we don’t provide deal advisory — but what we do have is unprecedented access to top quartile management teams, whether at an operator or GP level across the industry, with incredibly impressive and long track records in energy investing, across oil and gas, infrastructure, and alternative asset classes.
It’s really important if these groups are looking to allocate to the space that they take the time to get to know these teams well. Ask the challenging questions you’re not comfortable with. A lot of the GPs and teams we’ve spoken with have been able to get generalist families comfortable with energy by walking them through hedging strategies and how they’re protecting themselves from commodity price volatility. It comes down to individual preference, but it’s interesting looking at that final question of fund structure versus asset discretion. A lot of groups now want to eliminate layers, fees, and structures that come with investing through a fund, instead getting more direct exposure to the asset itself and partnering directly with management teams.
But again, if that’s an approach a family office takes, you must be incredibly confident that the team you’re partnering with is top tier and has the ability not just to identify risks, but to highlight them, walk you through time horizons, and the investment process, so you’re comfortable putting your money to work in these opportunities.
Yeah, sage advice for sure. Ben, really want to thank you for your time today. It’s been such a pleasure getting together as always and providing your insights for our audience. If people would like to connect with you and learn more about what you’re doing at Pragma or follow you, what is the best place they can get in touch?
We’ve built out our presence online now, so firstly please visit our website www.pragma-energy.com. I’m more than happy for people to reach out to me — either connect with me on LinkedIn or by email. My email is benwest@pragma-energy.com. We’d welcome the opportunity to speak with families, whether seasoned veterans in energy or newcomers to the space, and connect them with highly experienced teams that can walk them through the process and give them insight into where might be a good place to start if they’re looking to increase their exposure. We’d welcome that conversation and I hope to hear from many of your listeners off the back of this.
Excellent. Thanks so much, Ben. Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Dave. Great to speak as always and look forward to catching up next time we’re in Florida.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Wealth Strategy Secrets. If you’d like to get a free copy of the book, go to holisticwealthstrategy.com. That’s holisticwealthstrategy.com. If you’d like to learn more about upcoming opportunities at Pantheon, please visit pantheoninvest.com. That’s pantheoninvest.com.