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In this episode, we dive into the fascinating journey of Dr. Tom Burns, an entrepreneur, retired orthopedic surgeon, and physician for the United States Ski Team. With over 25 years of real estate experience, having acquired or developed over $700 million of real estate locally and internationally, Dr. Burns is an expert in the field.
He is also the co-founder and principal of Presario Ventures, a private real estate company focused on apartment development and private equity in Texas and the Sunbelt. Dr. Burns is the author of Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich, a best-selling personal finance book for those who want to live life to the fullest.
Dr. Tom shares in this podcast his remarkable story of transitioning from medicine to real estate, achieving financial independence, and creating a life of abundance. Discover the principles outlined in his best-selling book and learn how you can take control of your financial future, live life to the fullest, and embark on thrilling adventures through the Rich Life Mastermind.
He also talks about his journey and the steps taken to break free from financial constraints. Dr. Tom emphasizes the importance of mindset shifts and practical strategies to attain financial independence.
Join us in this enlightening episode to discover how you can take charge of your financial future and live a life of abundance through the Rich Life.
In This Episode
- The value of combining medical expertise with business acumen and how it influenced Dr. Burns’ entrepreneurial journey.
- His deep enthusiasm for traveling and the enlightening experiences he acquired.
- Practical strategies for managing personal finances, and creating wealth.
- The role of real estate investments, new developments in achieving long-term financial stability.
- Achieving financial independence to live the life you want.
Welcome to today’s show on Wealth Strategy Secrets. We’ve got another awesome show for you today. We are joined by Tom Burns, an entrepreneur, retired orthopedic surgeon, and physician for the US Ski Team. He has over 25 years of real estate experience and has acquired or developed over $700 million in real estate both locally and internationally.
Tom is the co-founder and principal of Persario Ventures, a private real estate company focused on apartment development and private equity in Texas and the Sunbelt. He’s also the author of Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich, a bestselling personal finance book for those who want to live life to the fullest. Tom is a sought-after speaker and mentor and has been financially independent for over a decade. He is the founder of the Rich Life Mastermind, created to help people achieve financial independence so they can control their future and travel to exotic places with him. Tom, my friend, welcome to the show.
Dave, great to be here, man. I appreciate the invitation.
You bet, Tom. This is long overdue. It’s great to have you on the show and have this conversation. I must share with the audience that we go back quite a ways, you and Darren. I’m grateful for the opportunity to have invested with you guys early on and get into real estate and alternative investing. It’s been a great journey, and I’m grateful for that.
Likewise, it’s nice to know people for a long time. It’s comfortable, and it’s nice to work together. It makes life a lot more fun.
Absolutely. So you have such a diverse background, Tom. We have a lot of doctors, dentists, and entrepreneurs in the audience. I think the common thread here is that we’re all looking for financial independence or, freedom in our lives—freedom of purpose, freedom of time, freedom of money—to be able to do the things we want to do.
I think that’s what’s unique about how you got into this space as well. Can you share more about your background, how you got into real estate investing, and how you’ve built this journey for yourself? I mean, being the US surgeon for the ski team is impressive. How did you make the transition to real estate?
It happened by default. When I was a kid, I was an athlete and had all those dreams, right? But I soon found out that nobody was going to pay me for it. So I was pretty good in school and thought, “I’ll become an orthopedic surgeon and a sports guy so I can hang out with athletes.” That was the decision process. So I went through the typical path: I did my undergraduate work, went to med school for 4 years, and then did residency where you get all your training.
I was flowing through all of that, knowing a bit about sports and a little bit about medicine. But halfway through my orthopedic training, I started watching the doctors who were teaching me. We trained with an apprenticeship model, kind of like blacksmiths and plumbers, where you work with someone who’s been doing it for years and you learn the trade. So, I started looking at these folks who were supposed to be me 10, 20, 30 years down the road, and honestly, I didn’t like what I saw.
They had lots of money, but they were unhappy. They were on their second or third marriages, complaining about their situation. And, you know, after seeing that enough times, I thought, “Man, I don’t want their money if I have to live their life.”
I’d always intended on having a good run through life. My wife and I sat down and decided we were going to have fun no matter what—through the good times and the bad. So, I figured I needed something else. I was looking for some kind of income that wasn’t correlated with medicine. This was a long time ago—I’ve got a few more birthday candles on my cake now.
I looked at a lot of options and ended up settling on real estate because, at the time, I didn’t have the money, time, or knowledge to trade stocks or start a business. Real estate was nice and slow, with a low barrier to entry. I could do it part-time or full-time, and I could partner with others.
At the time, I didn’t have two nickels to rub together, so I did what I could: I got as much education as possible. I read about it, learned about it, and talked to people. I started practicing, got a little income, and paid off any debts I had. The only way I knew how to learn something was to do it, so I just went out and bought something. It wasn’t much—just a small, unimpressive property—but things grew from there.
It was just an urge to take control of my life. And, honestly, narcissistically, I didn’t want anyone telling me what to do. So, I figured if I had income coming in while I was sleeping, it would work out. From there, it grew from that one small property to many more.
That’s amazing. Before we dive deeper, there are a couple of things about your background that I think are exciting and worth unpacking. First, what was it like to be a surgeon for the US Ski Team?
Just to clarify, I wasn’t the main surgeon, I was one of the doctors for the US Ski Team. I’m not that cool! After completing my medical and orthopedic training, you have the option to pursue a fellowship, which I did in sports medicine. It was in Vail, Colorado, with a famous group of doctors, including one guy who was a knee surgeon and known as the father of ski medicine.
Because of him, I got to meet a lot of the skiers and made connections with the team. I enjoyed taking care of the team. Before I even made a dime back in Austin, Texas, I went from Vail to Lake Placid, New York, where I worked at the Olympic Training Center for a few weeks. I took care of all the athletes, and one of the groups I worked with was the freestyle team—the guys who jump off ramps and do flips and twists, as well as moguls.
Since I was young and had been an athlete, I trained with them. I jumped with them, really liked the guys, and even qualified to compete. But I wasn’t dumb enough to do it. So, I stuck with them. I’ve traveled with the team for over 30 years. I went to Sweden with them just this past December. It’s been a great way to give back—it’s a volunteer thing.
That’s a nice way to see the world. It’s been an honor to do it, and even though I’m retired, I’m still taking care of the team for at least a few more years.
Wow, that’s cool. And that leads to my next question. Tell us a little bit about your love for international travel. You’ve also made some international investments and enjoy traveling to exotic places. So, tell us more about that passion.
I love this topic! That’s my biggest hot button, Dave. It is. So, part of that fun for me is traveling because I grew up with a pretty simple life. We went to Disneyland once and went camping in Colorado another time. Those are the vacations I remember as a kid. My dad traveled internationally because he was a Secret Service agent, so once I got the means, we went to all the places we’d never been, and we intended to go back.
If I had my way, I’d put a pin in every country in the world. I don’t know if that’ll ever happen, but I love to travel. It opens you up and gives you perspective. It helps you realize that when you’re complaining about your cable bill or not being able to stream something, there are people out there just trying to find their next meal. It gives you a lot of perspective on how other people live. We often assume that our bubble is the way life is, and it is for us, but people live very differently around the world. I’m fascinated by how they do it and by history.
Just this past weekend, I was in Panama, and a couple of months ago, I went to India. I would travel anywhere to learn what the people are like. I’ve been on top of mountains where no sane person would go unless they had a specific reason, but it was pretty cool. For example, I don’t know why you’d be on top of a mountain in Tajikistan unless you had a good reason, but it was an amazing experience.
That’s awesome! Do you have a specific list of experiences or destinations you’re focused on right now?
It’s kind of like my financial world—I have this vague idea that I want to do it all, but I haven’t gotten around to it yet. Next on the list is either the Middle East or Southeast Asia. I haven’t been to Cambodia, Vietnam, or Cairo. That part of the world is still on my list. I’ve been to Japan, but I missed my trips to China. I was supposed to go with the ski team during COVID, but it kept getting canceled. So, I think we’re going to head that way next to see how people live there.
I share your passion for travel, Tom. I’ve been to six continents and over 40 countries, and it’s been such a phenomenal way to learn about the world. Like you said, it gives you a different perspective—whether it’s on the economy, culture, or just how people live. It’s had an indelible impact on me as well. I’ve also managed to incorporate that love for travel into our wealth plan.
Ten years ago, we bought real estate in Italy, which has been such a wonderful opportunity. We’ve been able to bring our kids there every year, stay in our rental property, generate income, get depreciation benefits, and visit a place we truly love. And each time we go, we can explore other destinations like France, Switzerland, and beyond. We’ve built some amazing friendships there as well.
We’ve been learning the language, but I think that’s helped our kids learn these valuable lessons too. Not enough people in the U.S. travel abroad, and we’re blessed to have the means to do that. Not everyone has that, but you mentioned the kids, and for my kids, it’s opened things up for them. You know, when they report on London or the Eiffel Tower, it makes a huge difference when they’ve been there. It not only helps them in school but also broadens their horizons.
When they see how people are living in different parts of the world… I’ve spent a lot of time in Africa with my kids, and it was really helpful for them to complain a little less about certain things.
For sure.
What type of international investing have you done?
The biggest one was owning a ranch in South Africa. It was a lot of acreage—we bought it raw, some of it was wild, and some had been inhabited. We removed all the internal fencing, got rid of any falling-down buildings, and fenced the whole thing in. Then we stocked it with animals because there’s a lot of food insecurity there. So, we brought back several species.
We fenced off 6,000 acres, had a river that went out to the ocean, and beautiful cliffs. We stocked rhinos, giraffes, zebras, waterbucks, bushbucks, kudu—you name it. It was incredible. I’d run around on a motorcycle, eating meat pies and drinking South African beer. It was an amazing experience. We had that property for probably 10 or 12 years. I also have a little bit of stuff in Panama, but that’s it internationally. Most of my investments have been domestic.
Wow, that’s amazing. Do you have a particular wealth strategy or framework you’ve been following to build your wealth?
It’s never been really complicated. Going back to that initial moment where I was touched by the angel, I just wanted some income coming in that I didn’t necessarily have to provide my time for. I was a doctor, so I either had to do surgery, see a patient, or work in some way. So, when something started coming in extra, I wanted it to cover certain expenses, then eventually, I wanted it to cover all expenses, and finally, I wanted it to cover my lifestyle, which is a different number than just expenses.
That’s been my philosophy—always make sure the passive cash flow eclipses the expenses and the costs of living, especially while traveling around the world. I continue to focus on that. There have been gaps where I didn’t add to my passive income for a few years, but I kept trying. I never really looked at net worth, even though I had to track it often because we get underwritten a thousand times a year for projects, and I’d see the number. But that wasn’t important to me. It was more about cash flow—how could I pay my bills?
That’s still my primary focus. I’ve secured most of my assets with real estate, and I’m securing some things with other investments—like precious metals. It took me a long time to decide to buy precious metals because they don’t produce cash flow. So, you can see where my primary focus has always been—cash flow.
Tell us more about that thought process, especially coming from a background in medicine and moving into passive income. I think a lot of people in the audience can relate to that, whether they’re practicing medicine or in any career that requires specialized skills.
Essentially, you’re getting paid for your time in the time-and-effort economy. What was it like to go through that thought process? Think about what life could be like on the other side and how you framed that up. I think a lot of people probably struggle with that.
Sometimes, it’s because people think, “If you’re a doctor, lawyer, engineer, ditch digger, or whatever, what would it be like not to do this?” But you don’t have to quit your job. A lot of people love their jobs. The way I framed it was that I wanted control, right? Money isn’t the most important thing in the world, but as Zig Ziglar says, it’s right up there with oxygen. Money buys a lot of stuff, and it’s a lot more fun to have it than not to have it.
I knew that if I could get to a point where something else was paying my bills, I could decide what I wanted to do. And honestly, Dave, I practiced medicine for 12 and a half years after my income eclipsed my expenses because I still enjoyed it. I eliminated the annoying stuff.
That’s one thing people often think: “I have to make a huge amount of cash flow before I can stop working.” But I found that every little bit of cash flow helped. I took it in small chunks. I always use the example that I tracked everything on Quicken. I knew exactly what my utility bill was for the year, and with the click of a button, I could see that number.
One time, I looked at that and realized how much passive income I was making. I thought, “Hey, I’ve covered my utilities for the year.” Then, the next milestone was covering my grocery bill for the year. Small bits like that. And then, one day, you realize you’ve covered everything you need to survive.
At that point, you have a choice. You can grow your side hustle or real estate business if you want, or you can enjoy your job or profession more. Or, if you want to, you can sit on the couch and binge Game of Thrones. It’s about having the choice.
I just felt there was more to life than being tied down, always having to trade effort for money. No matter how much you get paid, it’s still a trade. The title of my book is Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich, and it’s a metaphor. No matter how much you get paid per hour or service, if you get sick or get hit by a bus, the music stops. You want to have security for your family and fun in life.
That’s how I thought about it. I wasn’t in any pain, but many people in my previous profession are in quite a bit of pain now. They’re more amenable to thinking outside the box because, back then, you got paid a lot of money. I was told once, “Well, I can just do another surgery or take the call and get paid for it,” which is true. It’s immediate, and it’s a lot more fun.
But investing takes a little deferred gratification. The question is, what do you do next month? You still have to do that surgery again. You still have to take that call. And then the next month. And the next.
I think the freedom that passive income gives you is a choice. We all want a choice in life. We’re humans. We want indoor plumbing and a roof over our heads. We like to control our environment, so why not control our financial environment and get the most out of life?
That’s such an important distinction, Tom, and I know I’ve had so many conversations with doctors as well. They talk about how they love 80% of what they do, but sometimes it’s that 20% that’s just really frustrating. I know a lot of us can relate to that. So, even achieving that passive income threshold that covers your expenses, I think a lot of it is about the psychology behind it.
As you said, you framed it as a choice. Having the freedom of choice. Many have said, “I still want to practice, but I want to do it on my terms.” There’s such a difference between practicing on your terms and working for someone else, feeling stuck in that rat race, constantly chasing the next surgery or task.
Exactly. Some people feel trapped. They have to keep working because they need the income, and of course, expenses rise with income. But it’s nice to have control. Medicine can be a lot of fun when you practice it the way you want to, as you just mentioned.
That’s all I did — I just eliminated the annoying stuff. When you’re able to tell hospitals or insurance companies, “I don’t need you,” you can spend more time with your patients. It makes you a better physician because you’re there for them, not just for the paycheck. It changes your mindset and your patients’ notice. One of the best ways to give back is to help heal suffering without needing to be paid for it.
That’s so true. Has your passive income been affected recently by the stress in the real estate market? What are you thinking about the market and your strategy these days?
Certainly. At our firm, about 15 months ago, we backed off the pipeline because we didn’t like the outlook. That was a good call. We’ve always made solid decisions, but we’ve been more cautious, looking at stable projects with strong partners and great locations.
You always want to be conservative, and we’ve dialed up the conservatism even more. Fortunately, none of my passive income has taken a hit because of the market forces. I prefer fixed debt, so I haven’t been impacted too much by the rate changes. However, some of the development projects we’re involved in have been delayed due to COVID and supply chain issues. A project that once took 14 months to build is now taking 30 months. So, while this hasn’t affected my passive income directly, the longer timelines mean increased expenses and delayed paybacks.
That’s a challenge. Has anything else impacted your investments, like bad actors or market volatility?
There have been some bad actors. As Warren Buffett says, “When the tide goes out, you see who’s swimming naked.” It’s true — a lot is going on right now.
Are you still pursuing HUD-type financing? I know that was a niche for you at one point.
We did a lot of HUD early on; that’s where we cut our teeth. But as we approached 2021, speed became much more important than HUD financing. About half of our portfolio is merchant builds, where we sell after 3 to 5 years, and the other half is designed for long-term holds.
We actually sold three HUD projects in the last two years because the numbers from buyers were so good. But we’re re-engaging with HUD on certain projects, as it still offers some of the best debt out there. We haven’t done one recently, but we have one HUD project underway, and it’s stabilizing at the moment.
That’s a nice niche. I don’t think many operators have gone through the process of working with HUD.
It’s a great product, but getting there is a challenge. It used to take 6 to 9 months to get HUD approval, but now it’s more like 9 to 12 months. It’s a lot of work to get the project approved, and it can cost upwards of $1 million, but if your planning is solid, you can be fairly certain you’ll get approved. We’re willing to go through the process if it makes sense. Once you have HUD debt, it’s fixed for 40 years, and the construction debt is fixed for 20 months, so it’s a great product.
Provides some certainty in this uncertain market, especially on the debt side. Are you focused primarily on Texas right now, or are you looking at other markets?
We pretty much stay home. We used to have some properties in surrounding states—Oklahoma, and New Mexico—but we divested those a while back. We realized that, for our firm, we had plenty of business in Texas. You know, the whole world is moving to Texas, right? So, that’s bringing jobs, bringing people, and with jobs and people comes the need for housing.
We’re pretty selective, though. We don’t work in the urban cores at all. We focus on secondary markets and the fringes of those urban cores. We watch the deliveries and absorption rates closely.
For example, around Austin right now, there’s a bit of overbuilding—no surprise there. But we think it’ll get absorbed over the next 18 to 24 months. So, we stay in Texas. We do have one portfolio with properties in Alabama as well—it’s an Alabama-Texas portfolio with five properties. That was our most recent foray outside of Texas.
We’ve looked at Florida, where you reside. It’s a great state for building, and we almost did something there a few years ago, but, as you know, almost doesn’t count. We like the state, but we just need someone solid on the ground there. We had a contract but didn’t pull the trigger on that deal.
It’s fascinating. You hear certain things in the news and the narrative they push, but just driving around here, especially in the market, it’s amazing. You see everything from multifamily and assisted living to build-to-rent projects. There are so many people coming in. Florida is now the fourth-largest state in terms of GDP in the country.
From a macroeconomic standpoint, I still think there’s a very strong case for multifamily, despite the headwinds we’re facing in the debt markets. When you look at the housing shortfall, especially in these strong markets, it’s still very compelling.
As you know, we’re still close to 4 million multifamily units underbuilt between now and 2030. Some estimates say it’s as high as 6 million, while others say 1 million—just depends on who you listen to. But there’s a significant housing shortage. The younger generation coming out would have liked to buy a house, but they’re struggling and are therefore renters. High interest rates are certainly working in favor of apartment developers and acquirers. So, the long-term outlook for multifamily is still strong.
It makes you sound like a homer, but when you look at all the data and articles out there, even people who have nothing to do with multifamily are saying this is the asset class to be in. I even saw someone suggest it should be its asset class.
In the short term, as I mentioned, Austin has been a bit overbuilt. But Austin’s the darling of the country—some might even say the darling of the world—when it comes to places people want to live. Despite layoffs and underused office spaces, there’s still a large net migration to Austin, and development has slowed, which is reasonable. Even in Hartford, we pulled back on our portfolio, but we’re still looking to develop. There’s going to be a gap. For example, there’s been a 74% decrease in apartment starts in Central Texas.
Give it time, and there will be a gap because not enough product is being produced. Those who can weather the storm now and get their projects going will have much less trouble stabilizing their properties when that gap emerges.
I think multifamily has a great future. As we talk about development, acquisitions, and workforce housing, it’s a stable asset class because you can’t make more of it, and it will always be needed. So, I think it will remain a solid investment.
And we’re seeing a lot of big money coming into multifamily, waiting for the right opportunities. There are some out there. We had one the other day that’s in trouble, but I don’t think there will be as many opportunities as there were in 2009 and 2010.
Tell us a bit more about new developments. Most of the audience is probably familiar with the value-add, Class B type model, which tends to be the most talked-about strategy in the multifamily space. Can you tell us about some of the differences in doing new projects? Sometimes people see it as a more speculative option. How do you manage the risk with new development?
I think with everything in life, you hedge your risk through education and experience. It’s certainly easier for the brain to comprehend a value-add project—like putting in new countertops, cabinet fronts, and flooring—and see immediate value. That’s a great business plan, and we’ve done that a few times. But by default, we ended up in the development space. It wasn’t planned, it just kind of happened.
Neither option is better or worse; they’re just different. With development, there’s a gap—typically about two years—before everything stabilizes. The rents recover, debt service is covered, and there’s some cash flow. With value-add projects in a good market, you can start seeing returns within one to three quarters. But right now, I’ve seen a lot of people holding back cash flow for at least four quarters, which makes sense in the current environment.
With development, cash flow may come a little later, but the upside is that you know exactly what’s behind the walls. When you acquire an existing property, you can do your inspections, but there are always surprises. With development, there’s generally minimal deferred maintenance for the first 10 years.
From a risk management perspective, we do similar things in both development and value-add. For value-add, we typically go in with lower leverage, over-raise a bit to ensure we have contingency funds, and plan for higher interest rates or buy rate caps. In development, we exercise GMAX contracts, where the contractor gives us a price and if costs go over budget, it’s on us. It’s about managing those assumptions—whether it’s rents or costs—and being prepared for the unexpected.
The process is quite similar in that regard, whether you’re doing a value-add or development. The numbers tell you what to do. If the numbers don’t work, don’t do the project. If they’re strong, go for it.
How do you project and analyze potential submarkets? Do you have a specific formula or process you use?
We have a process for that. We have a robust subscription to CoStar, so we look at their data on deliveries, absorption, and market trends. We’re aware that CoStar’s data can lag a bit since it’s sourced from management companies, but it gives us a good overall picture.
We still do boots-on-the-ground research, similar to a value-added project. We check out how other properties in the area are performing, how leased-up they are, and whether they’re achieving the rents they’re targeting. We also do a feasibility study, which is a third-party analysis that looks at growth projections, unit pipelines, and the demand-supply balance. If the study shows that there’s a strong demand but not enough supply, we’ll move forward.
We also pay attention to job and population growth. For example, in Texas, there’s a huge amount of job and population migration. Take Tesla, for instance—they have about 5,000 employees working at a mile-long building near the airport. Major projects like that bring in a lot of support jobs and increase the overall demand for housing. Companies are relocating, and people are moving with them—both for work and to start new lives in these areas.
Any particular areas you’re focused on right now where you see opportunities?
Everything in Texas is expensive right now—that’s no surprise to anyone. A key area we focus on is the I-35 corridor, which runs from Mexico, right through Texas, and includes cities like Dallas, Fort Worth, Waco, Austin, and San Antonio. Most of our focus is between Austin and San Antonio—what I like to call the “golden strip.” It’s a prime area, and I joke that someday, from space, you’ll see a glowing strip of light from Austin to San Antonio.
Anything in that area is pretty hot. A lot of people are moving there because they can live there and work in San Antonio, Austin, or even in smaller towns. That’s one reason why it’s growing. There’s also the Texas Triangle: Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston to the east and Austin/San Antonio in the center. That area represents roughly 70% of Texas’ population.
It’s a busy and popular region for companies relocating and people moving with their families. We primarily focus on that area. Houston is somewhat of a secondary market for us, but we know it well. Most of our investments are along Interstate 35. That’s been sufficient for our business.
For example, we’re currently sitting on a nice 12-acre piece of land where we plan to build several apartment units in an area where the population is growing at 6.9%. We like those numbers.
Great insights, Tom. I appreciate that. Now, shifting back to your financial independence philosophy—if you could give the listeners just one piece of advice on how they could accelerate their wealth journeys, what would it be?
You bet. There’s always more than one, but I’ll keep it simple. First, figure out why you want to do it. I know it sounds basic, but the truth is, that money is just a tool that helps you achieve what you want. Whether that’s more time with your kids, being away from your job, or traveling the world like Dave, that’s what’s going to keep you motivated through the tough times.
We’re not in great times right now, but you need that deeper reason to push you through. He who stays in the game long enough wins, right? Once you know why you’re doing it, get some education—listen to podcasts like this, read books, absorb as much as you can, and find what resonates with you.
Finally, surround yourself with people who are doing what you want to do or are where you want to be. Even better, find people who have already been where you want to go. That’s where you’ll find mentorship, experience, motivation, and potential partners or investors. It’s so valuable to be around a group with the same mindset because not everyone out there thinks the same way. A team that supports you along the way is essential. It will keep you going, and I truly believe that anyone can do this.
I’ve come across many dead ends and blind hallways, but somehow I stumbled into a place where the world allowed me to create passive income and make choices. If I can do it, I know everyone listening can do it even bigger, better, and faster.
Figure out why you want to want to do it. Money is just a tool that’s gonna get you what you really want, time with your kids, away from your job, travel the world, that’s what’s going to pull you through the up and down times.
Great insights, Tom. I can’t thank you enough for spending your time with us today and sharing your wisdom. You’ve offered so many eclectic thoughts—really a full 360-degree perspective. I’m looking forward to listening to this episode again. If anyone would like to connect with you or learn more, what’s the best way to do that?
You bet. I’m glad you called it eclectic—that’s code for strange. Just kidding! The best way to get in touch is through my website, richdoctor.com. If you want to reach out directly, you can send an email to [email protected]. The website also offers free resources that have helped me along the way over the past 30 years. I’m always happy to connect with new people.
Awesome. Thanks again, Tom.
Thanks, Dave.