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Rod Kleif is a serial entrepreneur and philanthropist who is passionate about business, high performance, real estate, and giving back. As one of the country’s top real estate and peak performance luminaries. He has also owned over 2000 properties. Rod Khleif soared from humble beginnings as a young, impoverished Dutch immigrant to incredible success.
Rod’s experience involves both remarkable triumphs and spectacular failures, which he affectionately calls “seminars:’ Rod will explain the mindset required to recover from losing $50 million dollars in the crash of 2008 to the success he enjoys today. Rod brings incredible authenticity and insight to his approach to real estate, mindset, success, and life.
Rod has a unique story that emphasizes the importance of mindset. Growing up, he had deeply-rooted doubts about his own worth – but through perseverance and commitment to his ambition, Rod was able to free himself from those external constraints. This is an inspiring example of how determination can help anyone achieve any goal they set their mind to; desire drives us forward and keeps us on our path no matter what obstacles we may face along the way.
High focus and control over noise are key components to success. Rod recommends surrounding yourself with people who will push you; those that lead by example, embrace challenges as opportunities for growth, and strive towards higher standards. In times of crisis lie chances for major progress – choose your influencers wisely!
Rod Kleif is a shining example of what’s possible with hard work and determination. Tune in to this episode for all the knowledge you need to ignite your own success!
In This Episode
- Rod’s background and how he reached this success.
- How did Rod pull himself back up after losing $50 million.
- Rod’s perspective on peer groups and choosing people who influence you.
- Rod’s Wealth Strategy for the new year.
- Rod’s one piece of advice that will move you.
Welcome to today’s show on Wealth Strategy Secrets. We’ve got an amazing episode lined up for you. Today, we’re joined by Rod Khleif, a serial entrepreneur and philanthropist who’s passionate about business, high performance, real estate, and giving back.
Rod rose from humble beginnings as a young, impoverished Dutch immigrant to achieve incredible success as one of the country’s top real estate and peak performance luminaries, having owned over 2,000 properties. He brings a wealth of authenticity and insight to his approach to real estate, mindset, and life success. Rod also founded the Tiny Hands Foundation, which has helped more than 110,000 children in need. Rod, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, buddy.
This is going to be a lot of fun, Rod. I’m looking forward to it, and I know the audience is going to be blown away when they hear your story, just as I was the first time I heard it years ago. It left such a profound impact on me in so many ways. Rod, for those who aren’t familiar with your story, can you tell us how it all started for you?
Sure. I’ll go way back, Dave, because I think it will add some context to what we’ll discuss today. So, I’m an immigrant. I was born in the Netherlands—think wooden shoes, windmills, and great cheese. I immigrated to the U.S. when I was six years old with my brother Albert and my mother, and we ended up in Denver, Colorado, where we struggled financially.
I remember we shopped at an expired food store—yes, that was a thing. We drank powdered milk with our cereal because it was cheaper than real milk. And trust me, it sounds better than it was. I wore hand-me-down clothes from Goodwill and the Salvation Army through junior high until I got fed up at 14. I was tall, so I lied about my age to get a job at Burger King flipping burgers so I could buy my clothes. Eventually, I wanted to save for a car too.
I know some of your listeners may have had it tougher than I did, and with the current economic challenges, maybe some of them are going through similar struggles now. But back then, I knew I wanted more. Fortunately, my mom had an incredible work ethic; she babysat kids so we’d have enough money to eat. Despite having no formal education, she was an entrepreneur who invested in the stock market, IPOs, and eventually, real estate.
Her first real estate investment was a house right across the street when I was around 14. She bought it for $30,000, and by the time I was 17, she told me she’d made $20,000 in her sleep. I was stunned. I said, “What? You made $20,000 doing nothing?” Right then, I thought, forget college—I’m going into real estate.
I got my real estate broker’s license as soon as I turned 18, which was possible with the right education back then. I could have had my own office and everything! These days, of course, you need experience to become a broker, but back then, I was a licensed broker still living at home and trying to sell real estate. In my first year, I made about $8,000. The second year, maybe $10,000. But by my third year, I made over $100,000.
What changed between years two and three that led to a tenfold increase in my income?
Well, I was dating a girl whose dad was also a broker, and he took me under his wing. He taught me the importance of mindset and psychology, showing me that 80-90% of success in anything is about your mindset and psychology. The actual mechanics, the stuff we talk about on our podcast, only make up 10-20%.
That advice set me on a new path. I also ended up spending 20 years following Tony Robbins around the world. He’s probably the best in the world at teaching mindset and psychology. Fast forward to today—I’ve owned over 2,000 houses that I’ve rented long-term, and I own thousands of apartment units. In 2006, my net worth increased by $17 million while I slept.
You might say, “Wow,” and I said, “Wow.” I thought I was a real estate god like I could do no wrong. My head was so big, I could barely fit it through a door. But when you get that kind of ego, the universe has a way of humbling you. For me, that happened in 2008.
In the crash of 2008–2009, I conservatively lost $50 million. What I’m known for talking about today is the mindset it took to have that kind of wealth to lose in the first place, and perhaps even more importantly, the mindset it took to rebuild afterward. I’m happy to dig into that with you, Dave, if you’d like.
I’d love that, Rod. Tell us, what was going through your head when you lost everything?
I thought I was set for life. My properties were here in Florida, and I believed that with 80 million baby boomers getting older and moving south, Florida was recession-proof. But we were ground zero for the economic collapse. I had about 800 houses spread over a wide area—from two hours north of me to two hours south along the Gulf Coast. Florida has no state income tax, so property taxes are proportionally higher, impacting cash flow. A lot of my properties were in wind and flood zones, which means higher insurance costs that also cut into cash flow.
The real challenge was that I owned several apartment complexes, and maintaining those was straightforward because everything was standardized—plumbing, HVAC, appliances, even door locks and windows. You can stockpile parts, and a maintenance guy can handle repairs quickly.
But with my 800 houses—many of which were C-class properties—each one had unique issues. If a repair was needed, the maintenance team often spent an hour or more just traveling, then had to find a local hardware store for parts, and so on. What took an hour in an apartment complex took a whole day at one of my houses, which drained cash flow.
The breaking point was that I didn’t focus on tenant demographics. As long as someone had decent credit, a stable job, and a deposit, I rented to them. After the crash, I realized many were contractors—plumbers, electricians, drywallers—whose work dried up completely in 2009. They couldn’t pay rent, and cash flow fell apart.
People often say, “You must have been over-leveraged.” But actually, I was at a 30% loan-to-value ratio. My portfolio’s value dropped by more than 70%, putting me underwater. I realized then, it’s all about cash flow. I don’t care what a property was worth a few years ago—show me the cash flow.
After all that, I get asked how I dealt with the loss emotionally. Honestly, I hid under a rock for a few months. But eventually, I pulled myself up. If you attend one of my boot camps, the first thing we do is set goals—because that’s what I did to get back on my feet. I reconnected with what I wanted and why I wanted it.
My goal-setting process is so powerful that the first hour and a half of my boot camps are dedicated to it. If you’d like, you can join me for this on January 2nd—I’ll be guiding it live, and you can find the link in my Linktree at rodslinks.com.
RodsLinks.com—plural, “links”—at the bottom is my goal-setting workshop I did last year on New Year’s Day. There’s a guide you can download. And, you know, here’s the sad thing, Dave: people spend more time planning a birthday party than they do designing their lives.
This is about designing your life. So if you’re married or have a significant other, sit down with them and have me walk you through this. It’s professionally done with music, and there’s a guide you can download. I’m not trying to sell you anything—it’s just there to add value. And if you’ve got a child over 10 years old, have them do it too. What a great way to get them focused on what they want.
Because focus is a critical part of this. Whatever you focus on is going to grow—positive or negative. And with the way the economy is going, focus is going to be super important. It all starts with goals because you need to create what Napoleon Hill calls a “burning desire” in Think and Grow Rich. You’ve got to want it enough to push through fear, through limiting beliefs, and even through comfort zones.
Speaking of limiting beliefs—when I immigrated here at six years old, I encountered bullies for the first time. I got thrown into school without speaking English, so I got my butt kicked sometimes. I didn’t know how to fight back yet, and I didn’t have much of a father figure at the time.
Then my mom, a proud Dutch woman, sent me to school in wooden shoes and those leather shorts Germans wear for Oktoberfest. So, yeah, I got my butt kicked again. There were bullies on my street, and they’d chase me home. My mom chased them off with a fly swatter, which only led to more butt-kicking the next day.
So I came up with this belief that I wasn’t good enough. I’d ask myself, “How can I show them I’m good enough?” And a lot of people have these kinds of limiting beliefs—things like “I’m not strong enough,” “I don’t deserve success,” or “I don’t have enough time or money.” But these are just belief systems, and as I like to say, the acronym for “belief systems” is BS. Most of these beliefs are just that—BS.
If you know you have one of these limiting beliefs, pull it into the daylight when it pops up. Look at it with your adult, rational mind, and you’ll burn it up. I used to be afraid to raise my hand in class, fearing embarrassment. Now I speak in front of thousands of people in flip-flops. I’ve become very free from the opinions of others. The key is to consciously recognize those beliefs as BS. When they show up, tell yourself, “That’s not real. Anyone who rejects me doesn’t know me, or they have their issues.” It all comes back to that burning desire. You’ve got to want it.
A hundred percent, Rod. Couldn’t agree with you more. Most people spend more time planning a vacation than planning their life. That’s the focal point of our whole wealth strategy—creating a vision. If you don’t have a target, you’re going to miss every time.
What’s interesting, and I know you’re a big proponent of this, is the psychology of money. In the U.S., we often get caught up with keeping up with the Joneses or feeling we’re never enough. We think if we just hit a certain threshold—like a million in net worth or ten million—then we’ll be happy. But it’s really all about mindset and living an abundant life.
Mindset is everything. What you said ties into something I’d love to talk about before we wrap up. It’s a little early to dive in, but we’ve been taught to achieve to be happy—like we shouldn’t allow ourselves to feel happy until we’ve achieved something. That’s an American mindset, and I’d love to expand on that when we close because there’s something powerful in shifting that perspective.
Once you’ve created that burning desire and set your goals, you need to commit to them. Your goals and the reasons why they matter must be non-negotiable. That’s why setting goals is the first thing we focus on in my boot camps. But after that, you have to make a real decision.
And I don’t mean being halfway in or just testing the waters—I mean, it’s a done deal. Once you make that decision, you’re fully committed, and nothing can knock you off track. If you’re just interested, you’ll get thrown off track. But if you make a firm decision, you’re like a train on rails. Motivation might get you started, but commitment is what will see you through. It all starts with that decision. The Latin root of “decision” actually means “to cut off,” meaning you cut off any other options.
You should be resilient enough to pick yourself up after you’ve lost everything and have the motivation to start over with better experience.
Tony Robbins uses a great analogy for this: if you’re attacking an island in battle, you burn your ships so you’re left with only one option—winning. That’s how you have to approach your decision.
After deciding, you need to take the first step. Sometimes, that first step is the scariest, but it’s also the most pivotal. I remember when I took my first steps in real estate, knocking on doors of people in foreclosure, and buying about 500 houses during that time. Let me tell you, those first few doors I knocked on were terrifying. I see the same thing with my students. Some of them go months, even a year, without closing a deal. But once they get that first one, they’re off—next thing you know, they’ve got four or five deals going.
No one wants regrets in life. This life isn’t a dress rehearsal. There’s a great book by Bronnie Ware, an Australian hospice nurse, called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying. She asked her patients if they had regrets, and the number one regret was not living the life they wanted, instead of living someone else’s life. Imagine reaching the end of your life with that regret. Fear of regret should outweigh your fear of failure.
Honestly, we fail our way to success. I’ve built 27 businesses, some worth tens of millions, others spectacular failures, which I prefer to call “seminars.” These “seminars” taught me invaluable lessons. It’s only a failure if you don’t get back up or don’t learn the lesson. I even met Sara Blakely, the billionaire founder of Spanx, who shared that her dad used to ask her and her brother every week, “What did you fail at this week?” That question was meant to make them fearless about failure.
The next big piece of mindset I focus on is focus. I think we’re heading for some economic pain. People smarter than me—like Elon Musk, who’s warned that the crash will be bigger than reported, or Jamie Dimon of Chase, who foresees a severe recession—are saying it could get ugly. So, staying focused is going to be critical in the times ahead.
Focus is critical. If you’re listening or watching this with Dave and me, you’re a leader. You wouldn’t be here otherwise. And let me tell you, in times like these, the world needs leaders. As a leader, you have to be mindful of your focus because where your focus goes, your energy flows.
The most successful people have an incredible degree of focus. Whatever you focus on grows, whether it’s positive or negative. If you’re caught up in the fear and negativity that’s often in the news, that’s what will expand in your life. That’s why goal setting is essential—get clear on what you want and why, and direct your focus there. Even if things look grim, don’t let yourself focus on the negative because it will only grow.
People often ask me, “How do I get out of student loan debt?” And I tell them, that’s the wrong question. Instead, ask, “How do I make so much money that my debt becomes irrelevant?” This is the same mindset shift Mother Teresa illustrated when she was asked if she was anti-war. She replied, “No, I’m pro-peace.” It’s a play on words, but the point is: that focus matters.
Stand guard at the door of your mind. Keep out the negativity, the naysayers, the noise. I keep up with headlines, but I avoid getting sucked into the toxic, polarizing content. On my podcast, every week, I do a segment called “Own Your Power.” It’s a short, motivational clip—3 to 5 minutes. Give me a few minutes each week, and I’ll pump you up for the week ahead.
My podcast, Lifetime Cash Flow, is now the largest commercial real estate podcast globally, with over 15 million downloads. I’m very proud of that. But back to focus—let me share a lesson from my entrepreneurial journey. Back when I was in Denver, I was a classic “shiny object” guy. I had frozen yogurt shops, vending carts, a carpet cleaning business, and I was doing real estate. But everything suffered because my focus was scattered. When I finally focused solely on real estate, I acquired over 500 houses. That’s the power of focus.
I also simplify my life to reduce decision fatigue. You’ll almost always see me wearing a black V-neck T-shirt. I have over 100 of them, and I do this to limit my decisions and conserve mental energy. Decision-making can dilute focus, so I try to minimize it.
I listen to just two podcasts: Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan. Tim Ferriss interviews some of the world’s top performers, and there’s a common thread among them—they almost all meditate. Meditation sharpens focus. So, again, focus is incredibly important. You’re welcome to jump in here, Dave.
There’s so much to unpack, Rod. I completely agree with everything you’re saying. And it’s so true—there’s a lot of sensationalism out there, and, as Jim Rohn says, “You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.” I want to talk about peer groups too, because it’s a huge factor.
Absolutely. Let me expand on that. Especially now, with so much economic uncertainty, you have to control the noise coming into your mind. Get your information from trusted sources, and then focus on your goals. As you said, when Tiger Woods is lining up a putt, he’s only focused on that ball going into the cup. He’s not thinking about missing. Visualizing and focusing is paramount, especially as we go into 2023.
And, back to peer groups—who you spend time with is who you become. Show me your two closest friends, and I’ll show you where you are financially, emotionally, and even in terms of happiness and health. Surround yourself with people who lift you, not those who are intimidated by or resentful of your success.
I’m gonna tell you, most people will just, you know, take the easy route and stick with people they went to school with or work with. But you can’t do that. You have to look at the people around you and ask, “Are these people going to lift me?” You want to be around people who want more out of life, who won’t be afraid of what you’re aiming for, who will push you and hold you to a higher standard. If you’re around naysayers, they’ll hold you back, and sometimes those naysayers are family. Love your family, but proactively choose who you allow to influence you.
You want people who see what you think is hard as easy. That’s who you want to be around. If you’re going to play tennis or golf, do you want to play with someone better than you or worse? You know the answer. That’s why I’m in a lot of masterminds—because I want to be around people who think what I think is hard is easy.
I started my mastermind, which is now the largest multifamily mastermind globally, with about $16 billion in assets represented. It began right here in my compound in Florida with 16 people and about $1 billion in assets, and it was extraordinary. I thought, “You know what? I’m going to formalize this,” so I did. It’s a lot of work, but it’s amazing to be around people like that.
Another key thing, especially in multifamily real estate, which is what I teach, is playing to your strengths. Your strengths are your greatest assets. People often think they should focus on their weaknesses, but no—build on your strengths. Hire or partner to cover your weaknesses. You’ll reach success faster when you’re focusing on what you’re naturally good at when you love what you do. In multifamily, for instance, the best partnerships are often between someone analytical and someone outgoing, because you need both. Multifamily real estate is a team sport.
By the way, I have a virtual boot camp coming up January 21st-22nd. It’s two full days, and I don’t sell anything there—just 16 to 18 hours of training. Normally, it’s $400, but if you use the code “Dave,” you can attend for $47. This includes some great bonuses, like my document library and deal evaluator software, worth $1,000 alone. If you don’t love the event, I’ll refund you $47. To register, go to rodslinks.com or text “links” to 72345 and use the code “Dave” at checkout.
If you’re interested in multifamily, this is a great chance. If not, find another area that excites you. I believe we’re headed into one of the greatest wealth transfers of our lifetimes. To capitalize on it, you need a side hustle or an investment strategy. Pick your asset class—single-family, self-storage, mobile home parks, multifamily—whatever resonates with you. Learn it now, don’t wait, because when we’re in the thick of it, it’ll be too late. You need to build relationships, understand evaluation methods, and have your strategy ready. With crisis comes opportunity.
I think we’re going to see some economic pain soon. They’re going to keep raising interest rates, and even Elon Musk, one of the richest people, has said that if they don’t stop raising rates, it could trigger a severe recession. Whether you love or hate him, he’s not a fool, so pay attention.
But here’s the beautiful thing. Cash is important, but let me add a side note about it—it doesn’t have to be your cash. Multifamily real estate requires money to buy, but there’s so much capital out there looking for a secure home, especially after being hurt in the stock market. We won’t even get into crypto or FTX and the billions lost there. There are a lot of people looking for a return on a safer investment, like commercial real estate, especially multifamily. So, again, it doesn’t have to be all your money.
That brings me to the second critical point: you’ve got to get educated right now. Don’t wait. If it’s not with me, go learn from someone else, but learn it now, because that’s the only way you’ll be able to capitalize on it. You could create lifetime wealth—for yourself, your kids, their kids, and beyond. Truly, legacy wealth.
But don’t find yourself in the same place 2 or 3 years from now, wishing you’d started. I’ll tell you, if I hadn’t been hiding under a rock after the 2008 crisis, I’d be on the back of a 300-foot yacht right now. I could have taken advantage of what happened, but I was recovering. I realigned with my goals, made a decision, got out of my pity party, and took action—starting my podcast, building a litigation support company, and more.
From a portfolio perspective, Rod, how are you positioned personally right now? Where are you seeing things?
We have assets in Texas (Dallas, San Antonio, Houston), Ohio (Cincinnati, Dayton), Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. We recently sold one in Louisiana and another in Kentucky.
All multifamily?
Yes, all multifamily. Thousands of units. We just acquired a beautiful asset in Nashville, and we have properties in the Midwest, too, in Indianapolis.
Are you foreseeing any challenges with the current debt markets?
Debt is very tough right now. Moving into this period, finding deals won’t be the hard part; it’ll be putting together the financing—the debt and the equity. I teach this in my boot camp, especially how to prepare investors, so they don’t get caught up in fear. There’s a lot of fear out there, but I genuinely believe there’s an incredible opportunity in the next couple of years, even if it’s a mild recession. I think it’ll be severe, but we’ll see. This current situation is fueled by excessive money printing.
But back to strengths—if you’re playing to your strengths, you’ll love what you do. I love what I do; you can see behind me on the wall here all the thank-you cards from students I’ve worked with. When you’re passionate, you can influence people, and passion helps minimize fear.
So true, Rod. Tell us about your Tiny Hands project. It’s inspiring.
Let me tell the story because it ties into achieving success. When I was in Denver, I knew I wanted to live on the beach. There’s no beach in Denver, but I would visualize the palm trees, the sand, and the surf. Twenty years later, I built an incredible 10,000-square-foot mansion on the beach—a Gulf-to-Bay property where I had a beach on one side and boat docks on the other. It was unthinkable when I was 18, but I visualized it, and I made it happen.
If you join my goal-setting workshop or boot camp, you’ll hear me say to take the lid off your brain when setting goals. Don’t limit yourself. Imagine no limits—nothing you can’t do, be, or have. So, after dreaming of that house for 20 years, I finally built it.
Let me describe it: a giant waterfall from the second-floor balcony into the pool, with trees bending over the pool. The pool was featured in magazines, with a big spiral staircase running through the house, a wine cellar, and aquariums that cost almost $200,000. But two months after moving in, I got depressed. I had worked 20 years for this “testament to my ego.” My family was inside, I had luxury cars, boats, jet skis—all of it. And I was unhappy.
A few things were going on. First, you need goals to fuel your drive, but it’s never really about achieving the goals; it’s about progress and growth. Happiness comes from growing and progressing. Like they say, the happiest days of a boat owner’s life are the day they buy the boat and the day they sell the boat. But in between, you need goals, because true happiness comes from progress and growth.
In my goal-setting workshop, I teach a powerful planning process that helps me manage two large companies simultaneously. One part of that process is to take a moment every week to acknowledge even the smallest accomplishments from the previous week. But there’s more to it than just that.
First, you should always have new goals lined up behind any big goal you achieve. As it says in the good book, “Without a vision, the people perish.” You need a vision for the future. At one point, I didn’t know what I wanted next, and that was a problem. But the bigger issue was that I was entirely focused on myself.
Back then, my mentality was all about showing the world I was good enough—proving that I mattered. That’s when I met Tony Robbins. I started reading more, and one of the books I picked up was his. I thought, “This is good.” I went to see him live, and he talked about feeding families during the holidays. I thought, “What a concept—doing something for someone else.” I was embarrassed it took me until I was 42 to understand that.
That Thanksgiving, I was going to visit my brother in Denver. I called him and said, “Hey, let’s feed five families.” He contacted his church, found five families in need, and we bought food, toys, frozen turkeys—everything. The third family we visited changed my life.
It was a Hispanic woman in a cramped one-bedroom apartment with five kids. When she saw everything we’d brought, she started crying. Two of her older kids started crying. I started crying. And I was hooked. Today, I’m blessed to say we’ve fed over 130,000 children for the holidays. We’ve also donated thousands of backpacks filled with school supplies and tens of thousands of teddy bears for police officers to give to traumatized children.
This ties into something I said earlier: we’ve been taught to achieve to be happy, but true fulfillment comes from giving back. Tony Robbins calls it the “science of achievement versus the art of fulfillment.” Achievement is a science. If you want to learn multifamily investing, come to my boot camp. I’ll give you the map and blueprint. There’s no secret sauce; you just have to do the work. But fulfillment? That’s an art.
You have to find what fuels you. For me, it’s kids. For you, it might be the environment, animals, or the elderly—whatever it is, give back now. And if you’re listening to this thinking, “I’ll give back when I have money,” don’t wait. Start now. When you give, the money comes faster. That’s just how it works. But do it because it fulfills you, not for any other reason.
I’ve interviewed billionaires and mega-millionaires on my podcast, and I can tell when someone is like I was back then—focused solely on success but unfulfilled. I feel for them because fulfillment doesn’t come from accumulating wealth. Give, even if it’s just your time, and you’ll feel fulfilled. The success will follow.
So powerful, Rod. Huge kudos to you for all you’ve accomplished and the inspiration you’re providing.
Thanks, my friend. It means a lot.
If you could leave our listeners with one piece of advice to accelerate their journeys, what would it be?
It might sound redundant but don’t miss this opportunity. I missed the last one because I’d just lost everything, but don’t let this one pass you by. Find what you love—whether it’s buying businesses, trading stocks, investing in single-family or multifamily properties, whatever it is, start learning it now.
This could be the greatest opportunity of your lifetime if you’re ready to capitalize on it. And if you don’t have money, that’s okay; you can still make it work. You can even buy businesses with no money—people are teaching you how to do that. Figure out what your vehicle is going to be right away and get up to speed immediately because I hate to see you miss out on this. That’s my advice—don’t wait.
Perfect. We’re going to include links to everything you’ve mentioned, like your boot camp and goal-setting resources. Just remember, go to Rod’s Links or, if you’re driving, text “LINKS” to 72345, and we’ll send you the domain. There are also a ton of free resources there, including free books, all of my social media links, and more.
If you have any questions about anything, feel free to message me on any social channel. I reply to every question, and I’m on all of them. They’ve even got me on TikTok now, so just reach out, and you’ll get an answer. It’s all there at Rod’s Links.
Awesome. Thanks again for having me on the show and for your time and insights. This has been such a powerful discussion. There’s so much to chew on and consider. It’s really inspirational, and as we transition into the new year, people should really be thinking about goal setting, especially considering the current environment and how to position themselves to excel.
Absolutely. Thanks again, Rod.
Thank you, buddy.